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Thread: Cites and EB.

  1. #1

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    Cites and EB.

    With the new regulation regarding the International Shipping of Rosewood, certain Mahogany species and other woods coming into affect on the 2nd of January 2017.

    How will this affect the international Customers?
    I assume prices will go up or like a few other makers (which I won't name on a EB Forum) will EB just put a ban on any instrument with rosewood?
    Will all instruments now all come with documentation detailing the woods used?

    and what about 2nd hand Instruments?

    On a personal note I will be going to the States for work for a few months maybe end of this year or early next year and need a bass of coarse I would like to get an EB would Guitar centre as an example supply the Cites or do you have to contact EB or Cites directly?
    I am sorry if this has been bought up before.


    Last edited by scottbass71; 02-19-2017 at 05:05 PM.

  2. #2

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    No one interested??? - I am a bit surprised
    Last edited by scottbass71; 02-27-2017 at 06:58 PM.

  3. #3

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    I have no idea what the answers are to your questions. But would definitely be interested in the replies.

  4. #4

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    You should read up before making a purchase but I believe the new regulations doesn't affect your carrying your personal instrument across the border.

  5. #5

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    With the guitar company I work for, the owner and I were discussing this the other day. From what he told me, it sounds like the ban is on sales only but if you're on tour or are traveling with something you own, you should be okay.

  6. #6

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    I am watching the situation with interest. From what I read, one will need a permit to export an instrument with Rosewood out of the US. I am in Canada, which will require a permit to import an instrument containing the woods in the Cites, I read that it will be $100 for a permit or $200 annually + $5 per instrument. Not sure how closely the customs officials will enforce this. I have an acoustic shipping in now......

    New CITES Regulations For All Rosewood Species | Reverb

    UN Issues New Protections for Rosewood Trees, the “Ivory of the Forest” | World Resources Institute

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  7. #7

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    I have done a lot of reading and I believe it is a lot more involved than just carrying an instrument through different countries & saying its for personal use.

    I have heard of situations where people have bought instruments on the internet and have been seized by customs saying they have illegal wood and it is up to the purchaser to prove he hasn't - he bought the guitar 2nd hand so no real paper trail.

    also if you export from the USA you need an export permit & when I get it into Australia do I need an import permit?

    Do a search for Gruhn where he tells a story of a Martin guitar returning back to the factory for a warranty repair from Canada and being seized - very scarry.

    I am also looking future EB basses like the Ann 5 string coming out this year with rosewood board will I be able to get one

    On a final note places like Stewmac & LMI have just put a blanket band on sending any rosewood product outside the US

  8. #8

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    I did a bit of research on the situation here in the U.K. and posted the following recently in a U.K. forum:

    While all this wasn't introduced primarily with an eye on the guitar industry, it still means that there will be potential implications on buying, selling or travelling with any instrument containing rosewood.

    The approach seems to vary from country to country though. There was an article in a German guitar magazine in December which strongly recommended to register all instruments containing rosewood before 1 January 2017 with the authorities. It pointed out that ownership is still perfectly legal - as is using those instruments in concerts, shows etc - but when selling an instrument the seller has to provide proof/documentation that the guitar was already in the EU before 1 January 2017.

    To get clarification, I rang the CITES people at the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs a few weeks ago. I was told that - while the regulations equally apply to all ratifying countries - the approach on how they are implemented in practice does vary. Some countries like Germany, USA and Canada were set on 'regulation', whereas the approach in the UK was one of 'deregulation'.

    Furthermore, I was told that in the UK there is no need to register instruments. Also, if I understood correctly, they can still be traded by private sellers without the need for additional paperwork, at least for the time being.

    It gets a bit more tricky when travelling with an instrument. You should still be OK within the EU if it's for 'non-commercial purposes'. (Apparently that includes using the instrument for a show or concert.) When travelling outside the EU, I was told you should be covered if the overall weight of the rosewood in the instruments doesn't exceed 10kg. However, I was advised to apply for a permit, since there is some uncertainty over how custom officials in various countries are going to handle this.

    I was also told that of course no one knows at this stage how Brexit will affect any of this.

    I think - to be on the safe side - when buying a guitar or bass, it's advisable to ask the seller for some sort of documentation showing that the instrument had already been in the UK/EU before 1 January 2017. When buying new stuff, you should definitely expect a dealer or manufacturer to provide the relevant certificates.

    Overall, there seems to be a fair bit of uncertainty about how the new regulations are going to be implemented. One of the CITES persons I spoke to mentioned a meeting in mid-January in order to clarify some of the issues, for example travelling with musical instruments for 'non-commercial purposes' etc.

    I was advised to submit any questions in writing towards the end of the month to get an official position.

    Here are some links I found useful:

    How CITES works | CITES

    New CITES Regulations For All Rosewood Species | Reverb

    A Note on the Export of Instruments Containing Rosewood – Sadowsky Guitars

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  9. #9

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    Thanks Liverbird for the links very interesting reading

  10. #10

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    Maybe Trump will get us out of that agreement.

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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by syciprider View Post
    Maybe Trump will get us out of that agreement.
    Would still impact you if you travelled to other countries or tried selling to someone outside the US

  12. #12

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    Warning Stop the politics.

    Its a giant pain in the ass that has affected out sales...we still have instuments made waiting....
    they enact laws like this with very short notice and each application need a biologists review and there arent enough biologists available
    Two requests, please
    Please contact customer service prior to posting instrument issues
    Please don't PM me

    Please dont add me as a friend on facebook....my life is an open book here as it is.

  13. #13

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    Thanks BP for your insight I know a few local repairs/makers having real hassles.

    I can appreciate what they are trying to do but it is like putting in a nail to hang a painting with a sledge hammer.

    Also BP are you getting any requests from customers who have bought instruments Pre-cites asking what wood their instruments are made off?

  14. #14

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    It's insane that they - the governments involved - think new instruments.....oh to hell with it.

  15. #15

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    now instruments to Canada with rosewood are nearly impossible Since we dont sell through a distributor and they can go one at a time we have to drive instruments to LA (4 hours minimum and have a inspector sign off on it... insane
    Two requests, please
    Please contact customer service prior to posting instrument issues
    Please don't PM me

    Please dont add me as a friend on facebook....my life is an open book here as it is.

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