Playing & singing at the same time. Tips?

[Kevan]

Hey folks.
I have the basics down (no- I don't mean "basic Luke theory" or "basic Morse soloing" LOL), and now I'm trying new things.

I'm working on playing and singing at the same time. My voice isn't terrible, but I'm no Sebastian Bach either. It's a brain-connect coordination thing and I've been practicing a bunch to try and get it right.

The song list so far:
- I Love LA by Randy Newman
- Lunatic Fringe by Red Ryder
- Talk To Ya Later by The Tubes (still working on the solos; damn Lukather doesn't make it easy...heh heh)

I know a lot of members here are in working bands where playing and singing is part of every gig.
If anyone has any tips or tricks to help with the process, it would be greatly appreciated.

Rock on everyone!

[DrKev]

I'm no Sebastian Bach either

Actually, that's a good thing, I think.

There are no rules for this kind of thing. All you'll have noticed, some people make this seem effortless and then there are those of us who can't seem to do it without gargantuan effort.

I used to find it a terrifying concept but it gradually came to me after a lot of work. Honestly, I don't think there is any one answer but for me it was a case of a) knowing the vocal melody and timing inside out, 2) knowing the guitar parts (or mandolin, in my case from time to time) inside out and simply practising the two together over and over until I don't have to think about at least one of them.

It does come together, and I believe anyone can do it but it may help to think about the timing of the instrumental parts and how they relate to the timing of the vocal parts (or vice-versa).

[Kevan]

Thanks, DrKev.

I'll try learning to sing the songs sans playing.
Looks like I'll need some vicious sarcasm for the R.Newman tune; intense stares for the Red Ryder tune; and annoying paparazzi for the Tubes song.
Ugh. It's either hard work or schizophrenia. LOL

The Sebastian Bach reference was in terms of his vocal range (7 octaves).
It was either him or Mariah Carey. LOL

[TNT]

Yeah,

It's a"difficult" task for me as well.

One thing I've learned (as mentioned above) you must play the guitar parts "without" thinking, because the mind is going to pay attention to the vocals.

That's the way I practice them at the same time, and it makes it a lot easier!!

[Colin]

any counterpoint style of playing is going to be hard. Trying singing superstition or funky music while playing the riff. Good luck, the rewards will be great if you persevere.

[Kevan]

Thanks everyone!
Good tips.

I'm gonna wait on the Stevie Wonder tunes until after I've gotten through the Luke stuff.
One Everest at a time.

[SharonG]

Practice.

The more syncopated the guitar part is compared to the vocal, the longer it might take. As has already been said, get each part down on its own, then put the 2 together. You might even slow it down at first to see where the 2 parts lock in.

But basically, it comes down to practice - good luck!

[Jodizzle]

Sharon is right ..
practice practice practice. The more "second nature" you can get your playing/singing .. the easier it will be to incorporate something else. Easier meaning "less hard"

I found Children Of Bodom to be inspiring. That guy can play the most ridiculously hard licks and still hold down the lead vocals

[Kevan]

Thanks ladies!

I understand about the syncopated parts. "Talk To Ya Later" has the vocals come in before the main riff starts. I guess I'm used to them happening at the same time, or really, really close to the '1'.
I guess that's what happens when you get Luke and Fee Waybill in the same room together.

I have "I Love L.A." down to the point where I can even do fun stuff during the song. Randy's vocals are timed pretty close to the '1', so that makes playing the guitar parts and singing a little easier. As soon as I finish this HDD recovery on the Mac (ugh), I'll get a video up and you folks can critique it all day long. LOL

The repetition of the main lick for "Lunatic Fringe" has been a little tough, but the basic beat of the song (and overall song construction) help with that. The hardest part for me so far has been figuring out the pedal steel solo and transferring it to regular electric guitar.

Thanks everyone for your insight and tips. I'm putting them to good use when I practice.

[colinboy]

make sure to use a metronome also when practicing the guitar parts to build speed and accuracy.ive found since practicing with ametronome all the time that my overall rhythm for singing&playing as improved.

good luck!

[radrock]

Definitely echoing what other others have said. The LESS syncopated the better you'll do. Or if it is syncopated. "Big Trouble" by DLR is not a good place to start.

Start with early Beatles. Usually pretty straightforward stuff. She Loves You, All My Loving, Help etc.

my 1 cent.

[Sub1 Zero]

This is a bit cheap, but having another guitarist playing with you solves many problems, from a performance standpoint (he covers your ass).

Also if you will notice with James Hetfield for example, that the vocals and rhythm guitar part are often either rhythmically similar, or the rhythm on one of them is simple (quarter notes, straight eighths, etc.). Wayne Static is another example, the guitar and vocal rhythms are either the same, or at least related, or one of the rythems will be simple (or he just lays out on guitar for a bit).

The best advice I can give (I've been working on this myself, and I feel your pain) is to listen closely to how the guitar and vocal parts relate, and try to see it as a whole instead of as doing "this and this and this.... AND this".

Also, forget about hitting the right notes at first; get the rhythms down, then start plugging in pitches. Maybe try doing it on one pitch until you have it down cold.

Hope this helps!

[Kevan]

Thanks!

Jodi- I checked out some of the Children of Bodom stuff, but I could only understand every 14th word. That makes it a little difficult for me to sing. Nothing against the guy; he can obviously play, but his vocal "stylings" aren't really what I'm going for.

Most of the time I'm playing along with the track at a low volume level, so the metronome is there courtesy of the drummer.

I'll give the 'rhythms first; pitch second' method a try and see how that goes. Sounds like it would work good for the more complicated stuff.
What's ironic is that I could probably tap out the solo to "Big Trouble" before I could play the rhythm guitar parts and sing it at the same time....even though I have the lyrics memorized. LOL

I agree with the 2nd guitarist thing. With "No More Mr. Nice Guy", I accidentally learned both parts as one guitar. I suppose with another guitarist I could split 'em up now, but it'd be odd at first.

I'm not a huge Beatles fan, but I'll give it a shot.
Can I do some Stones tunes instead?

[Sub1 Zero]

Thanks!


I'll give the 'rhythms first; pitch second' method a try and see how that goes. Sounds like it would work good for the more complicated stuff.

This is what music teachers are teaching kids in beginning band. It's very effective

[floyd99]

any counterpoint style of playing is going to be hard. Trying singing superstition or funky music while playing the riff. Good luck, the rewards will be great if you persevere.

oh big time.
one of the bands i'm involved with we do a medly where we segue from Superstition into Funky Music (with a couple of bars in between for a chord progression to change key and speed up)...

it's SO HARD, and that's just guitar wise. swapping from one riff to the other is tricky because they are so similar, my brain just can't cope - it takes a good few bars for the new riff/rhythm to lock in.