In store StingRay problem

[recover82]

I paid a visit to a nearby Guitar Center this weekend and was surprised at what I found when I picked up a StingRay. When I ran my hand up and down the neck I could feel the edges of nearly each of the frets sticking out from the neck. I don't just mean I could tell they were there, I mean they were obviously protruding from the wood almost like rubbing my fingers against a metal burr.

If I were some random Joe off the street and this were the first interaction with a Music Man product... this wouldn't have made a very good first impression. Needless to say, knowing the build quality of the Music Man line I was quite surprised to find this.

Just thought I'd mention it here in case the folks at EB wanted to contact that particular Guitar Center to inquire themselves.

It's the Crestwood, Missouri Guitar Center on Watson Road (see link for contact info)
Crestwood GC Info

[bradfordws]

It happens - I was once at a bass shop and there was an Alembic with the same problem. You would think that a bass that cost $10,000 would have zero issues! I think it's just due to further shrinkage of the wood. A quick fix - any good repair shop can file down those edges.

[bovinehost]

In very low humidity environments, frets can do this. Sometimes the shops store these basses high up on the wall (heat rises) or near a vent. It doesn't matter what brand it is; this can happen.

I'll leave this up long enough for one of the GC guys to have a look.

[boristhespider7]

I once corresponded with Lakland about this issue. I'm all MM and don't own any Lakland, but the information below is interesting:

"Humidity effects wood quite greatly. Think of a wooden door that in the summer feels harder(90%) to open then in the winter at 0% humitdity it swings freely. I’ve been in this business for 13 years now and this happens to us and every other manufacturer if the bass was made in the summer then delivered in the fall and winter. I myself was suspect of humidity when I started Lakland. Within a year I invested in humidity control after being proved wrong. Our shop is kept at a constant 50% this time of year in Chicago we are closer to 0.

The basses we make in winter usally don’t have this issue. The good thing is once the frets on the edge are knocked flush to the fingerboard (a 10 minute repair) they are there for life. When the summer comes there are no issues and no issues as well next winter.

About 15 years ago I remember trying Alembic basses at Guitar center and feeling the same issues. I was appalled and thought they were negligent, I now know differently. Once last thing. To prove my point go to a big box store like Guitar Center and try any number of basses, unless they have a tech who is really on top of things, you will feel the same issues.

I’ve asked may great minds (Sadowsky, Tobias, Etc... ) no one has any trick to get around this."

[recover82]

In very low humidity environments, frets can do this. Sometimes the shops store these basses high up on the wall (heat rises) or near a vent.

Makes sense..... I'm sure it's nothing then.

Thanks.
(and by the way, apart from that issue she was a beauty)

[ZiggyDude]

The GC in Harrisburg has the same problem. I have noticed it before. Sometimes the frets on the EBMMs feel like a saw. I don't really bother much with the other basses there so I can't do a comparison. The ones most recently like this are on sale and set up on the floor. I also noticed that the neck had a little too much forward bow and made the strings feel "Higher Up". I am not sure if this is related to the other or not.

I suppose the type of heat a place uses could also create a different effect.

[jlepre]

In very low humidity environments, frets can do this. Sometimes the shops store these basses high up on the wall (heat rises) or near a vent. It doesn't matter what brand it is; this can happen.

I'll leave this up long enough for one of the GC guys to have a look.

+100 Jack

[five7]

I’ve asked may great minds (Sadowsky, Tobias, Etc... ) no one has any trick to get around this."[/QUOTE]

Cut the frets shorter to start with and leave space for movement.

[oli@bass]

Cut the frets shorter to start with and leave space for movement.

Thinking about how frets are installed and dressed, it seems that this would not work... because you can't work on material that's not there, so you'd never be able to get a perfectly smooth shape at the edge.

Other (uneducated ) suggestion:
- make them necks all in winter (not practical from a business POV)
- dry the necks to 0 humidity before dressing ( " )


Bottom line:
- take'em to the next shop when fret sprout appears... and that may be something a good dealer could take care of.

[silverburst]

I’ve asked may great minds (Sadowsky, Tobias, Etc... ) no one has any trick to get around this."

Is it really that hard?

I have a trick to get around this: dealers should keep up on their stock and repair guitars that do not play right. People might buy guitars that play well, and surely will not buy them unless they are super-discounted.

Maybe they should get on the stick with the economy in the crapper. There is alot of competition out there.

The guys at my two closest GC's have plenty of time to goof around and BS with each other when I am looking for some help...

[agplate]

Living in Arizona, I do see this from time to time, even at smaller dealers. However, it's always been clear to me that GC does not care about maintaining their stock of instruments. Nearly every GC MM bass is unplayable due to a lack of a simple truss rod adjustment/maintenance.

Out here, even the cheesiest used car dealers with the worst stock washes their inventory at least once a week and will fix the flat before you buy it.

[boristhespider7]

Is it really that hard?

I have a trick to get around this: dealers should keep up on their stock and repair guitars that do not play right. People might buy guitars that play well, and surely will not buy them unless they are super-discounted.

Maybe they should get on the stick with the economy in the crapper. There is alot of competition out there.

The guys at my two closest GC's have plenty of time to goof around and BS with each other when I am looking for some help...

Nobody would disagree with you on this. Obviously, the explanation from Lakland was from a manufacturer's point of view. He also seemed to be indicating that it's not always the store's fault initially and that all instrument manufacturers have faced this problem at one time or another. The seasonal issue was pretty interesting. I agree the store should resolve the problem when it arises and the instrument is sitting in the showroom. I just tried a SLO Special at a GC with a bowed neck and frets popping out the side. It was fine when they got it in a few months ago (indeed, it is now on display high up where the heat travels). Nobody working at GC will notice or care.

[ZiggyDude]

Curious.

If one waits till the conditions have the frets sticking out the side (assuming from dry air?), then you file them down, what happens when the neck hydrates again?

[Stephen]

Curious myself:

Do any of you guys with such violent seasonal changes of solid wood instruments own any (valuable) acoustic guitars or maybe even a double bass? If so, you really should think about a hygrometer and most likely a humidifier.

@ ZiggyDude: the neck will "grow" again and the frets will start a tiny bit further inside. We are talking 1/100s of millimeters here. And actually, some luthiers/builders prepare their frets just like that, a little bit shorter than the neck width ... but this is really rarely seen, mostly on rather pricey instruments with a binding on the neck (binding is applied/finished after the frets are done on these).

[ZiggyDude]

We are talking 1/100s of millimeters here.

Some of the fret "Growth" is as much as 1/16" believe it or not. Last year there was a StingRay that you could hurt your hand on. Some of the other posts above seem to have the same experiences. But yeah - I see your point. If the fret shrinks inside the wood some later - bobody will probably care.

The point made by some about GC not taking care of the instruments on the wall is true. I bought a used Carvin last year that it took weeks of gentle tweaks to finally get the neck right. It was on their wall for almost a year (only way to bargain!) The EBMMs I tried the other day at the local store really changed over the couple of weeks they were on the floor. I know one of the "Mom & Pops"in the area tune everything on the wall every day. But in all fairness - they have a lot less stock to keep up with. I guess even a large store could get to something at least once a week though. Maybe some with store manager experience can express the "Cans and Can Nots" of that. There must be a down side to that much tweaking.

This was the reason that one well known CA bass company stopped selling to GC and the other large chains. They did not like seeing their stuff auditioned that way. But, those firms don't need to produce large quantities of instruments either I guess.