Question: Whatever happened to the cool new tuners?

[adouglas]

Just idle curiosity....

When the 25th first surfaced it was going to be fitted with some really cool new tuners. Those didn't make it onto the final instrument.

Just wondering what happened to that project.

[Big Poppa]

they are close

[adouglas]

Thanks, BP.

From time to time I look over to my left, spy the big ol' retro cloverleaf keys on my Bongo's tuners and think how out of place they look on such a modern instrument. I love the feel and function, though.

Would these be available separately for retrofit, or are they for new production only?

Related: Is the whole thing about the mass of the tuners being part of the tone for real, or just an urban legend? (One of the guys in my band has a Str*t with an added slug of metal embedded in the headstock, supposedly because it does something good for the sound... or maybe sustain... whatever.)

[oli@bass]

I use a Fatfinger as well to move around dead spots. Adding mass to a spring-mass system changes it. Try it for yourself.

[keko]

Thanks, BP.

From time to time I look over to my left, spy the big ol' retro cloverleaf keys on my Bongo's tuners and think how out of place they look on such a modern instrument.

I had that feeling too recently, when tried Bongo at my local dealer!

Bongo deserves different shaped tuners, something similar to it's own design!
For example, reverse shaped half moons, or small Bongo's headstock shaped, or...something like that!

[MadMatt]

Related: Is the whole thing about the mass of the tuners being part of the tone for real, or just an urban legend? (One of the guys in my band has a Str*t with an added slug of metal embedded in the headstock, supposedly because it does something good for the sound... or maybe sustain... whatever.)

You know I've actually been putting alot of though into this. The reason was simple, the Basses that I liked the sound of where not the basses that where most comfortable. I learned on a cheep Korien Bass that had a small, light headstock. It did not sound too bad but the great thing about it was it was perfectly balanced for my playing position. I think I need to explain what I mean by perfectly balanced... I (used) to play with the bass neck pointing at the 2:00 position when you looking at me. When I started looking for a replacement (and I looked at many brands) it seemed that all of the basses that where really well balanced in my playing position did not have the "Balls" I was looking for. The 25th was the optimal compromise. I'm learning to play "flatter" around the 2:30 to 2:45 position where the 25th balences out.

Now please bear in mind I am an IT geek, not physics professor but I believe what is acualy ancoring the sting at the tuner end is not only the stiffness of the neck and the force of the neck rod compensating that, but also the wieght of the headstock. As newton taught us, mass at rest want to stay that way (like me when my butt hits the couch.. it wants to stay there ). At the low frequescies we play in, i think the mass of the headstock is going to play a large role in how the base frequency and overtones (= energy) are sustained within the string and not lost though transmision to the neck and body. IIRC I remember reading somewhere that the lower the frequency is, the more energy can be transfered. (Anyone who knows about physics please correct me). If this is true the heavier headstock will allow the string to retain more energy at a lower frequency before the "string dynamics" (There is probably a real term for what I mean) cause the stings movments to move though the hamonic overtones (think of the sting moving from vibratong along it entire length to each flageoletto to understand what I mean). The result of this is a sound that retains more low end "umph" and sounds "growlier" with a heavier headstock.

The question is... does any of this make sense or am I way out there? I am just trying to put reson behind my observations.


-Matt

[ivbenaplayin]

You know I've actually been putting alot of though into this. The reason was simple, the Basses that I liked the sound of where not the basses that where most comfortable. I learned on a cheep Korien Bass that had a small, light headstock. It did not sound too bad but the great thing about it was it was perfectly balanced for my playing position. I think I need to explain what I mean by perfectly balanced... I (used) to play with the bass neck pointing at the 2:00 position when you looking at me. When I started looking for a replacement (and I looked at many brands) it seemed that all of the basses that where really well balanced in my playing position did not have the "Balls" I was looking for. The 25th was the optimal compromise. I'm learning to play "flatter" around the 2:30 to 2:45 position where the 25th balences out.

Now please bear in mind I am an IT geek, not physics professor but I believe what is acualy ancoring the sting at the tuner end is not only the stiffness of the neck and the force of the neck rod compensating that, but also the wieght of the headstock. As newton taught us, mass at rest want to stay that way (like me when my butt hits the couch.. it wants to stay there ). At the low frequescies we play in, i think the mass of the headstock is going to play a large role in how the base frequency and overtones (= energy) are sustained within the string and not lost though transmision to the neck and body. IIRC I remember reading somewhere that the lower the frequency is, the more energy can be transfered. (Anyone who knows about physics please correct me). If this is true the heavier headstock will allow the string to retain more energy at a lower frequency before the "string dynamics" (There is probably a real term for what I mean) cause the stings movments to move though the hamonic overtones (think of the sting moving from vibratong along it entire length to each flageoletto to understand what I mean). The result of this is a sound that retains more low end "umph" and sounds "growlier" with a heavier headstock.

The question is... does any of this make sense or am I way out there? I am just trying to put reson behind my observations.


-Matt

I am 100% certain that mass plays a role in overall tone & sustain (case in point - the mahogany tone block in my 20th SR) but i'm not a physics geek (that would be my dad) & i'll have to bring up the bongo...
I usually play my 'ray in live shows, but I took out my bongo for 2nd & 3rd sets last show and let'r rip. In my opinion - it's a lighter, more comfortable instrument to play, it's as punchy (or even more punchy than my 'ray) and has great sustain as well... I'm doomed - Bongo DDII HHp from bass central should be here soon... bass porn will immediately follow delivery, and my beautiful stingray will now be fondled only @ home and on special occasions... damn bongos...

[Bloodfist]

What do these new tuners look like?

[adouglas]

There never were any photos. The last indication was that they're significantly smaller than the ones in use on most MM basses (note that the 25th uses different tuners) and have a four-winged key instead of the flat key we're used to. I think they're sealed instead of open, too, but I'm not sure.

IIRC the reason for developing new tuners was to allow for smaller headstocks, but I may well be wrong about that.

If you dig around for early mentions of the 25th you'll find some info.

[strummer]

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/musi...tml#post571695

[kevins]

i love the clovers for one! i hope they never change them. however the bongo does need something different because it is different lol. however it should be something completely unpredictable

[Smallmouth_Bass]

So the weight savings is in the elimination of the back plate (gear directly to the tuning key shaft) and the reduced key size?

[oddjob]

So the weight savings is in the elimination of the back plate (gear directly to the tuning key shaft) and the reduced key size?

Also a smaller headstock - at least that was part of the reason, IF I remember correctly (the back plate have a minimum footprint - change that and you can change the stock size)

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Makes sense.

[sitonmybass]

I like the standard clover-leaf shaped tuners, it's a MusicMan trademark; I like them on my Bongos!

I'm also quite used to seeing the smaller tuners on the 25th; looks good.