Question of Overdrive

[Jonny Dubai]

I do something similar, but it all depends how you set up your pedal (to me anyway). If you are playing on the distorted chanel and you kick in a tube screamer set on high it will get mushy

so

What i do is set the gain to about 9-10 then the volume of the pedal to about 3 oclock. I get a bit of a boost and extra sustain.

Great thread,

J

[Plaschkes]

I actually do just that, only with my 2 channel Rect-O-Verb.

Since I have only one channel of distortion, I want to utilize it for rhythym and lead playing, so what I do, is have the gain quite low, and have two overdrives in front. a TS9 for rhythym playing, and soon to be, undecided one for lead, to boost the gain and yet the appropriate frequencies for each sound with having just one EQ set in the amp.

However, my amp has a Solo function that boosts the volume at the poweramp stage, it can go up to like +15dB or somthing, so for solos I also use that. If your amp doesn't have a similar function (I don't know the JSX all to well) then a clean boost in the loop will work the same way in boosting your signal, unless your channel volume is at 10, in which case it's allready maxed and it will only increase your poweramp saturation.

[beej]

Hey Koogs-

So you have 1 clean channel and 2 channels you want to use for solos. Why not set ch 2 for rhythm and ch3 for solos and set it to be louder than the other channels? (As I write this I'm hearing the Nigel Tufnel "one louder" bit in my head.) Easiest solution. Though I can see why you'd want different sounding channels on 2 & 3.

I think with an OD pedal, it would add more gain (but have it set with a slight gain boost) and not totally kill the tone, yet increase the volume (because of the gain) slightly to differentiate the solo from the rhythym.

Yeah, again it really depends how much gain you're running on those two channels. If you're close to maxed out and the preamp tubes on ch2 and ch3 are providing all the amplification they're capable of, then increasing the signal into the amplifier with a pedal won't have any effect on your overall volume. The sound will just more compressed and noisier. If they still have some room to go then you will get a volume boost.

Or would a simply EB Volume pedal do what I am looking for?

This is your best bet The FX loop sits between the preamp and output stages. So you can control the amount of juice going into the output tubes. Normally you'll back off the volume a little bit, and then for solos just open 'er up all the way.

Btw, you'll want the 25k version for this.

Also, might as well throw the G-Major in the loop as well. Then you can use all the cool sounds on every channel.

[TNT]

Beej,

What amp you giggin' with these days?? What "troops" in the "loop"??

[SteveB]

I'm with Beej on both his answers.

Normally I'd suggest an EQ pedal as a boost. You can even tweak the EQ'ing a bit that way to optimize it for your 'solo' sound.

With a 3-channel amp though.. (and I have the Peavy Triple X head with 3 channels also).. I use the 'crunch' channel for distorted rhythm playing and the 'solo' channel for leads. I don't use nearly as much gain on the rhythm as I do on the lead, and each channel has it's own volume plus the whole amp has a master volume.. so you can make the lead channel louder than the others.

[TNT]

I think the problem players encounter quite often, is that when they do "roll" back volume, everything else rolls back with it (dynamics, punch, drive etc. . .)

They want to maintain that "dynamic punch" but just at a reduced volume.

Volume should just be about volume - nothing else!

That's why it is often mentioned that when you roll back the volume it cleans up nicely, and, I always say, "I don't want it cleaned up", I just want lower volume. If I want it cleaned up, etc. . .I would employ "other" methods.

Yet, that is the challenge.

Great answers by the way!

[beej]

What amp you giggin' with these days?? What "troops" in the "loop"??

My Guytron 100W 2-ch head or the little Suhr Badger 18W power scaling head. Both great at what they do. In the loop I stick with just delay, verb, chorus and a volume pedal. Depending on the setup I use the VP as a blend for the FX or as an overall volume.

The Badger gets a lot of its tone from the power tubes so it's most sensitive to FX in the loop. Whereas the loop in the Guytron is more transparent. I'm guessing Koogie's JSX is like that since he's getting his gain from the preamp, he'd have no problem using the loop.

I think the problem players encounter quite often, is that when they do "roll" back volume, everything else rolls back with it (dynamics, punch, drive etc. . .)

Everybodys setup is different. If you need to have specific settings at all volume levels, then having a channel switching amp works great. If you have an amp that doesn't rely so much on power tube saturation then the volume pedal in the loop trick works great. With an old Marshall or something that relies on power tubes for tone and doesn't have a loop ... well then you need a multiple amp setup or really have to use the volume control.

I'm so blown away by great players that show up with a single amp, no FX, and get all their tone with their fingers and volume control (Jeff Beck does it for me). But honestly, as guitar players most of us play with too much distortion anyway. Cleaning up a bit when we're not soloing often makes a huge difference.

There's an old vid from Steve Morse kicking around where he talks about pickup selection. His advice when you're not soloing is to sit back and fit into the mix. Turn down your tone control and not be so trebly. You sill move a lot of air and contribute to the mix, but you let other instruments through as well. Then when it's solo time you change your tone or pickups and cut through. Great advice and it doesn't rely so much on volume changes as tonal ones.

So lots of ways to skin the cat.

[fbecir]

So lots of ways to skin the cat.

Beej you are a monster

More seriously : you are totally right when you talk about Steve Morse. You can really change your presence in the mix just by changing the pickup or by using the Tone knob.
I was playing in a big band (19 musicians : brass section, Leslie organ). In such a case, when you want to solo and to be heard, well the volume is not enough. The Leslie organ takes so much frequencies that you have to choose carefully your sound. In fact you need a sound with a lot of treble (the Leslie sound is more spongy). Just changing the volume is not enough.

[Ponch]

very cool and serious discussion on this thread, I love it !

[koogie2k]

Awesome Beej....I love your tech knowledge....

Anywho....I think I have it figured out with your help and the help of others here. I do have one other piece to try before I decide on the route I am going to go.

As of now, I am looking at the volume pedal to do what I need it to do.

However, I have tried an OD pedal and a Tubescreamer just to see the differences in each. I actually liked them as well. I don't normally play with the gain pegged out....too much for my taste.

But, I am looking for the pedal Jeffrey suggested and will give it a whirl to make sure.

Thanks a million for the inputs from everyone. It is a world of change going from a Vetta to a tube amp. I am still doing research as a have a specific tone in mind...as we all do. I could be on this search forever....lol

[sixa]

Hey koogie2k.

If you are running the G-Major in the effects loop, do not change anything, if you dont want to. To get some sort of volume boost for leads, try adding the compressor on the G-Major and up the gain on the compressor, OR try adding the EQ and bump the mids and also the gain on the EQ.

Hope this helps.

[Slingy]

Alot of good suggestions here. I have another reason for using the pedal in the loop. The clean channel on my HRD has no master so it works like a master volume plus its great for volume swells. If I had a three channel amp I'd probably use one of the other methods mentioned, but I'd still have the volume pedal there too. I've tried the eq pedal in the loop too which is fantastic for sculpting sounds, much different then an eq before the amp.