OT: Smaller Amps With Good Tone?

[ruso]

See, that's my problem. My last amp was an Ampeg 2x8 combo with a single 12ax7 and had absolutely no bottom end or punch whatsoever. I'm starting to think that for the sake of tone, I should probably just get what I want, but at the same time try and keep the volume down. I guess it'd be kind of a waste of a head and cabinet but then again, I really didn't need to buy this new JP7 did I?

Do 2x12 cabinets have similar characteristics to a full 4x12 cabinet? It would seem to me that the 4x12 would have more bottom end. But given my experience in the home and car audio, technically the 2x12 should have similar frequency response if the internal volume is exactly half of its 4x12 counterpart. Hmm...

[Sweat]

See, that's my problem. My last amp was an Ampeg 2x8 combo with a single 12ax7 and had absolutely no bottom end or punch whatsoever. I'm starting to think that for the sake of tone, I should probably just get what I want, but at the same time try and keep the volume down. I guess it'd be kind of a waste of a head and cabinet but then again, I really didn't need to buy this new JP7 did I?

Do 2x12 cabinets have similar characteristics to a full 4x12 cabinet? It would seem to me that the 4x12 would have more bottom end. But given my experience in the home and car audio, technically the 2x12 should have similar frequency response if the internal volume is exactly half of its 4x12 counterpart. Hmm...

Well another reason i can recommend the Soldano, has botom end upper and lots of punch, it containd 5-12AX7 and to El84's on the output side.

[beej]

Amp shopping is just tough. There are a million amps out there at all price points and with all manner of features. So you've got to ask yourself what you really need out of this amp, and how much are you willing to spend.

If you just want a practice amp and don't want to gig, then you've got a lot of options. (Something like a Pod is ideal in that situation too, as you can get a wide range of sounds and play with headphones, etc.)

If you want something you're going to play with the band, then you're in a different ball game. You need to factor in how much wattage you need, # of channels, FX loops, etc.

The big problem with big amps is that most don't sound good at low volumes. You can turn up the gain and get the preamp cooking, but much of the sounds we love come from the harmonics produced by an output section that's being pushed hard. There are a few ways to get that at lower volumes- power scaling (I have a Suhr Badger with PS and it kills at all volumes), attenuators (my Guytron has a novel approach to attenuation/slaving), etc and each has it's merits. Some master volumes work well, some are terrible, depends on the design. Getting distortion from the Phase Inverter helps get you there- the post phase inverter MVs (PPIMV) I've heard are great on the right amp. The combination of a good MV and attenuator is often enough to tame a great amp and make it suitable for playing at home.

As for cabinets, there are some great 2x12s out there. An open back cab next to a wall will give you great bass response due to the standing waves. Less so when you move it out into the open, though. Closed back cabs have lots of "thump" but are directional. Ported cabs can be a good solution. I have a ported 1x12 (Suhr) that sounds HUGE and has lots of bass. Port City make an excellent ported 2x12 (and 1x12). 4x12s look great, but they're quite impractical for a home practice rig unless you have the space. Not to mention it's hard to get enough volume at home to get those speakers working.

Since you like the Mesa sound, the recommendation about the Express sounds solid. They've got switchable wattage, come in a combo and have that characteristic sound. But there are a million amps that could work.

Just putting my two cents into the ring here. Think of everything you really need and your budget and hit the stores

[GWDavis28]

small amp BIG attitude; specially through a 4x12

These things have a huge rep!!! Sweet design and the packaging is awesome!!

Glenn |B)

[JMB27]

small amp BIG attitude; specially through a 4x12

damn that is so cool .... gotta get one!

thanks for posting

[ruso]

There are a few ways to get that at lower volumes- power scaling (I have a Suhr Badger with PS and it kills at all volumes)

OMG, I just checked out the sound clips on Suhr's website, particularly this one:

http://www.suhrguitars.com/downloads...BadgerDemo.mp3

Now that is one bad-ass amp! So you can basically rail the power stage but keep volume levels down? They are a little pricy but the combo could definitely be a possible solution. See, I'm the type of person who will pay to get what I want even if it means putting more hours in at work for some extra cash. I don't play out or really even jam with anyone. I'm currently 100% a home musician, and considering that most, not if all of my playing will be here at home, I should probably skip the practice amp category and go straight to something with some balls that has some form of scaler/hot plate.

[whitestrat]

one amp I can definately recommend is the Laney VC15. it's a 1x 10" Jensen speaker, and it's also a 15w full tube amp. 3 x 12AX7 and 2 x EL84 tubes. lots of punch... Only thing is, the onboard amp distortion gives a vintage vibe OD at best. Couple that with a good pedal, and you've got a killer amp. I use it with my MI Audio Tubezone Overdrive. It eats bigger SS amps for breakfast... Heheheh...

[Earplayer]

the best "small" amp for me: KOCH - STUDIOTONE ... very versatile and GREAT tone. never found a better amp in that price-range. also great for gigging!

[candid_x]

Do 2x12 cabinets have similar characteristics to a full 4x12 cabinet? It would seem to me that the 4x12 would have more bottom end. But given my experience in the home and car audio, technically the 2x12 should have similar frequency response if the internal volume is exactly half of its 4x12 counterpart. Hmm...

Imo, a good 1x12 is all that's needed, especially for home playing. I can rattle the widows plenty with my rig, but it still sounds good when turned down to practice or noodling levels. I've personally never played through a 2x12 I liked.

Some gigging size amps sound awful at low volumes, but this isn't the case for all amps. The only thing "boutique" about my Laney LC50 and LH50 is the NOS V1 tube. They can be found on the used market for around $400, and they sound great with re-tubes and a good 1x12. And, they do as well in my living room as they do at a gig or jam. No, they're not a Bruno, Two Rock, D13 or even a DrZ, but who cares? They sound great to me, and in the end that's all that matters.

[greeny]

There are some great low powered amps.

I have a Cornford Carrera (5 - 8 W) which with 12" speaker and large (ish) pine cabinet provides a decent bottom end.

The Suhr Badger would probably also do what you need, a bit more powerful but a great power scaling implementation.

Then at the cheaper end there's the likes of the Orange Tiny Terror 7/15 watts.

[beej]

OMG, I just checked out the sound clips on Suhr's website, particularly this one:

http://www.suhrguitars.com/downloads...BadgerDemo.mp3

Now that is one bad-ass amp! So you can basically rail the power stage but keep volume levels down? They are a little pricy but the combo could definitely be a possible solution. See, I'm the type of person who will pay to get what I want even if it means putting more hours in at work for some extra cash. I don't play out or really even jam with anyone. I'm currently 100% a home musician, and considering that most, not if all of my playing will be here at home, I should probably skip the practice amp category and go straight to something with some balls that has some form of scaler/hot plate.

I totally agree with Candid that a 1x12 is more than enough. FYI, I gig a lot with my Badger and 1x12. It's 18W and plenty loud for what I need. I love my bigger setup, but this one does not lack for volume or oomph.

The Badger is a bad ass amp, for sure. Yes, basically you have a preamp gain control and a "drive" control for power section. As you scale down the output, you can vary the level that's fed to it. So you can control the amount of power amp saturation and the compression that it produces. There's a good Peter Thorn (Canadian guitarist, plays with Chris Cornell) vid on YouTube where he demos it. You can see it on the Suhr site. That's what sold me.

It's more of a cranked Marshall with Vox flavour, though. You won't get liquidy Petrucci gain with it. With a good OD pedal you get there, though (I use a BB Preamp and it gets there). But that said, only a Mesa is really going to sound like a Mesa.

Anyhow ... it's not a bad idea to get something you can jam with, but that works at home (that way you're always ready to play when the opportunity arises). So with that in mind there are quite a few amps that will fit the bill.

[terdrocket]

noob here. 1st post.


I like the Fender Blues Jr. for a small amp.
15 watts, tube, 12" celestion speaker, and easy to modify.
I own two and run in stereo.

btw, bought my first Ball this Christmas - Rosewood Axis. I love it.

[Jonny Dubai]

YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (just kidding)

I have been absolutly blown away by the new Laney Lionheart 5w combo. Amazing tone and a great price.

J

[RocketRalf]

noob here. 1st post.


I like the Fender Blues Jr. for a small amp.
15 watts, tube, 12" celestion speaker, and easy to modify.
I own two and run in stereo.

btw, bought my first Ball this Christmas - Rosewood Axis. I love it.

I almost bought a Rosewood Axis when i was shopping for my Silo in FL! And I play it trough a Blues Jr. too! (just one). And we both have rocket in our names! Am I a fan of you or what?

Yes the Blues Jr. is great for it's price, and when mod it can beat more expensive amplifiers, but if he has more money to spend, something like the MESA Express might be a better choice for him. Amps are a personal choice after all, there's not one right answer. Just try as many as you can. I did not have that chance when I was shopping for my amp or my guitar, but I'm still really happy with both. Internet is a great resource for this.

terdrocket what kind of stomps/effects are you using on your Blues Jrs.?

[terdrocket]

terdrocket what kind of stomps/effects are you using on your Blues Jrs.?

Right now I'm in the market for more effects. I currently run a line 6 echo park into a dual channel compressor/limiter/noise gate