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Cab opinions : Two Thiele 1x12 vs Ported 2x12

This is a discussion on Cab opinions : Two Thiele 1x12 vs Ported 2x12 within the Music Man Guitars forums, part of the Gear Talk category; I've just landed 2 EVM12L Black Labels and need to make a decision for the cab(s) I was set on ...

  1. #1
    Dizzy's Avatar
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    Cab opinions : Two Thiele 1x12 vs Ported 2x12

    I've just landed 2 EVM12L Black Labels and need to make a decision for the cab(s)

    I was set on getting 2 Thiele cabs made, but the new-gen ported 2x12's (Port City, Genz Benz etc ) are very tempting.

    I'd dearly like to get one of Port City's 2x12 cabs to give a try, but it ain't an option here in Oz.

    I think I'm going to have to get them built by this wizard cab builder in the West Aussie country : M C Custom Cabinets
    (Check out his gallery for the superb work)

    The two 1x12's would be great for portability, and separation for stereo - but they are very directional. Maybe beam blocker might do the trick.

    I reckon an oversize ported 2x12 like the Port City cab would sound huge, and give a fuller sound - with far less "beaming".

    For some reason, the internal volume of the newer cabs is way more (per speaker) than the Thiele TL806 (the cab design using thiele parameters).

    Obviously I lose all separation options for stereo with the 2x12.

    The other option is ditching the Thiele idea and going for oversized 1x12's.

    Opinions ??
    Last edited by Dizzy; 06-13-2008 at 05:00 AM.
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    beej's Avatar
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    What about building two ported 1x12s? Then you won't have the directionality issues, you've got greater portability (you can only take 1 if you need it), etc. Or make them partially open back (maybe a removable baffle)?

    Lots of good designs to work from. Haven't heard the Port City cab yet, but I have a ported Suhr 1x12 that's killer- it disperses really well too.

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    MusicManJP6's Avatar
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    I had two thiele cabs with my Mark IV and they sounded great! I highly recommend two thieles. If you are feeling lazy you can just bring one thiele and leave the other at home and just move the head back and forth. The bass response was unreal!
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    candid_x's Avatar
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    I'm a fan of separate 1x12 cabs. To my ears there's better punch and clarity, plus the options of using just one for whatever reason, and the portability factor.

    I was using a ported Bogner Cube for awhile, and while it's not my thing, it really is a great option, if you want a closed back quad kind of sound from a 1x12 cab. Solid as a rock too.

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    Tim O'Sullivan's Avatar
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    I would say get 2 1x12" cabs purely from a lugging about point of view.
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    Lou's Avatar
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    I have a pair of Mesa 1x12 theiles with EV speakers. The bass response is unreal. Plus you get better stereo spread. When I play gigs I will run one speaker on the other side of the stage to really spread the sound and it makes it easier for my bass player to hear. Plus they are easy on the back.
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    Johnny Guitar's Avatar
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    What are thiele and ported cabs?
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    Dizzy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback fellas - your opinions agree with my gut feeling :
    I'll go the two 1x12 option.
    The question I'm asking now is Which Cab ?
    I'm basically wanting to see if there's a better option to the Thiele.
    Logic would say NO, as the Thiele TL806 was designed specifically for the EVM12L's, but they're a pretty old design now.

    Quote Originally Posted by beej View Post
    What about building two ported 1x12s? Then you won't have the directionality issues, you've got greater portability (you can only take 1 if you need it), etc. Or make them partially open back (maybe a removable baffle)?

    Lots of good designs to work from. Haven't heard the Port City cab yet, but I have a ported Suhr 1x12 that's killer- it disperses really well too.
    Thanks Beej,
    The Thiele Cab IS actually ported :

    , but it's cubic volume is quite small when compared to some of the newer oversize 1x12's.
    From what I'm reading, these oversize cabs sound much 'bigger' - but the low end can be a little excessive / hard to handle.

    HOWEVER, I just checked the Suhr site and saw the Badger 1x12 (you've got the badger, right ?) The cubic volume (LxWxH) of those cabs is actually quite close to the Thiele Cab. Do you have any pics of the Suhr Cab with the front removed so I can compare port size ? Do you know if there's any internal panels behind the speaker ?? (for sound direction).


    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Guitar View Post
    What are thiele and ported cabs?
    Johnny , Check out MESA BOOGIE's Thiele Cabinet for info. Mesa Boogie adopted the Thiele design (slightly modified to fit the amp heads on).
    The TL806 Thiele design is based on calculations by Mr Thiele for the EVM12L speaker. (Mesa now uses Jensen C90's I think)
    This is a ported cab. The "Ports" are the openings to allow air / sound movement.
    Last edited by Dizzy; 06-14-2008 at 05:39 AM.
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    Dizzy, did you get my email? It wasn't super detailed, but I hope it helped in some way.

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    the genz benz actually have a much wider despersion than any "normal "cab they have a 15 degree offset in the enclosure it 's like a V mounted speaker~ so it's a bigger sweet spot in it's tonal broadcast the nice thing about 2 seperates is you can adjust the sweetspot but I 'm a big genz benz fan so for ease of portability and cost it's the way to go!Plus you can pimp it out! my 2x12 and 4x12 both sound huge for the size i own marshall 4x12 ans the 2 x12 is loader then those! and MUCH easier to lug!



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    Dizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Warren View Post
    Dizzy, did you get my email? It wasn't super detailed, but I hope it helped in some way.

    paul
    Yes, Thanks heaps Paul.
    Sorry I haven't replied yet - I got it late yesterday at my office and the message is on that PC
    It seems as thought it's going to be too hard to get the Port City Cabs to Oz.
    Your rig does look awesome !

    Quote Originally Posted by shredderbetter View Post
    the genz benz actually have a much wider despersion than any "normal "cab they have a 15 degree offset in the enclosure it 's like a V mounted speaker~ so it's a bigger sweet spot in it's tonal broadcast the nice thing about 2 seperates is you can adjust the sweetspot but I 'm a big genz benz fan so for ease of portability and cost it's the way to go!Plus you can pimp it out! my 2x12 and 4x12 both sound huge for the size i own marshall 4x12 ans the 2 x12 is loader then those! and MUCH easier to lug!
    Yeah, the GB's are a pretty radical cab - big capacity, big ports - big sound !
    Definately an option if I change my mind and go 2x12.
    Last edited by Dizzy; 06-14-2008 at 04:01 PM.
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  12. #12
    V_S's Avatar
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    BTW... Thieles aren't that hard to build. My Das built me one. The costs for the materials (besides the EVM 12L) were somewhat below 50 €. At the moment it's still bare wood, though .. no tolex or finish.

  13. #13
    Dizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V_S View Post
    BTW... Thieles aren't that hard to build. My Das built me one. The costs for the materials (besides the EVM 12L) were somewhat below 50 . At the moment it's still bare wood, though .. no tolex or finish.
    Yep, they are easy to build.
    I've got original EV Thiele TL806 Builders Plans, and I'm pretty handy with that stuff.
    I've got all the tools incl. a nice mitre saw & router - but I just don't have the time these days. One of the biggest issues was getting 3/4" Void free marine grade ply - Baltic Birch even harder to find here in Australia - it's not available at every hardware shop like in Europe / US.

    My original plan was to build the cabs to be ready for when the speakers arrived.....

    The guy I've found uses Baltic Birch, and does all Dovetail joinery - plus tolexing.
    Last edited by Dizzy; 06-14-2008 at 04:12 PM.
    EBMM's :
    2010 BFR JP6 - Bahama Blue (#4 of 50)
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    2007 20th Ann. Silhouette - Prem Quilt / Piezo / Hardtail
    2007 20th Ann. Silhouette - Prem Quilt / Hardtail
    2004 Silhouette Hardtail - White / Rosewood
    2002 JP6 - Silver Sparkle
    1995 EVH - Trans Blue Quilt (NOS)



  14. #14
    V_S's Avatar
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    OK I see...
    the only problem i encountered is the width of the the three ports. It seems that on photos the three ports on the original TL806 plan have a different widths than the ones on the Mesa Boogie cab. I still have to find out for sure... Anybody here has a MEsa Boggie Thiele and can measure the widhts of the three ports?

  15. #15
    Dizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V_S View Post
    OK I see...
    the only problem i encountered is the width of the the three ports. It seems that on photos the three ports on the original TL806 plan have a different widths than the ones on the Mesa Boogie cab. I still have to find out for sure... Anybody here has a MEsa Boggie Thiele and can measure the widhts of the three ports?
    I don't know why MESA would have changed it, and it looks pretty much the same to me.

    If there is a difference, maybe it's because MESA never intended their cab to be used in step-down mode (with the middle port cover on).

    Therefore the size of the middle port wouldn't matter ?
    EBMM's :
    2010 BFR JP6 - Bahama Blue (#4 of 50)
    2009 BFR JP6 - Dargie II
    2009 BFR JP6 - Cherry Burst (NAMM)
    2009 JP6 - Dargie II (NAMM)
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    2007 BFR JP6 - Bahama Blue Burst (MHS)
    2007 20th Ann. Silhouette - Prem Quilt / Piezo / Hardtail
    2007 20th Ann. Silhouette - Prem Quilt / Hardtail
    2004 Silhouette Hardtail - White / Rosewood
    2002 JP6 - Silver Sparkle
    1995 EVH - Trans Blue Quilt (NOS)



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