Off Topic: Black Clouds and Silver Linings

[Bassey]

They have collaborated. I think she sang The Glass Prison in Germany

Lol!

No you got it wrong. It was Caught in a web And it's actually not Lady Gaga but Jordan Rudess with a wig. Didn't you notice the Zen Riffer in his hands?

Great show though! (I was there! But I have to admit that I liked Neal Morse better than DT)

On topic: The album is growing on me more and more. Personal highlights are the "In peaceful sedation" part of A nightmare to remember (almost "scenes from a memory" like harmonies. Wither is nice and the outro of TCOT

[kissmyaxe]

I do not think this album is bad but I dont think it's completley done growing on me. I dont think it willl ever be an album I can listen to for weeks on end like Octavarium, SC, Tot and SFaM. I have a feeling its going to rate 5 or 6th on my favorite DT albums. Wither has to be their worst song written this decade though, just my opinion

[MikeVt]

Wither has to be their worst song written this decade though, just my opinion

Why? Because it's not progressive enough? I happen to like it.

Mike

[Paul in WV]

Wither has to be their worst song written this decade though, just my opinion

I personally absolutely LOVE "Wither". I have no reason for this other than it might, one day, get them on the Ra-Didio (and that may or may not matter to them at all).

Radio play is one way to get a few new fans though I do tend to think it's influence is waning every day.

And...

"The County of Tuscany" is playing (again) right now!

[patpark]

i downloaded it last night from iTunes and love it. Great playing and dig the tones. I hear tinges of black metal here and there. Its epic and I love it.

[mesavox]

I've given the cd some time now as is only fair with Dream Theater.....

Personal opinion.....Is it me or has their songwriting gone backwards? The songs just ain't of the same standard as on previous CD's (SDIT, IAW, Octavarium all sound....just.......better). A Dream Theater to me used to be a musical journey - but this one just ain't cutting it for me.

I wish Mike would shut the hell up with his singing.

James sounds good to me, I don't understad why he gets bashed......Geoff Tate was sometimes all over the place live, but all he gets is love off everyone.....

The songs on IAW (for example) are much more mature and musically diverse....I can't help but wonder if Roadrunner are putting a certain amount of pressure on for DT to fall into their traditional genre a bit more......but 50yo guys singing about this stuff just seems slightly weird to me, particularly when the musicians in the band talk about how seriously they take the music........

I would like them the chance to give James the opp to write more lyrics.....his lyric are always good, well considered. His solo album with Marco Sfogli was incredible with just excellent lyrics - but as DT is basically MP & JP's trip - I guess he's onto a loser....

I'm still giving it a chance but........

First my thoughts...

I'll have to think about how this compares to Octavarium for me, but the title track of that album alone puts this one ahead of it I think. 8V is just too long and repetative to me. Other than that 8V is one of my fave DT albums. Love the catchy hooks mixed with the heavy prog tunes.

BCASL is much better than SC to my ears. My reaction from start to finish is... this is more like it. Having said that, there were several songs I really liked on SC, but too many throw away tracks and this one doesn't have those I don't THINK. I'm not sure how I feel about Best of Times.

I love Whither. I wonder what filter people put on when they listen to a DT album... can't a song just be good and nice to listen to... does it ALWAYS have to be compared to some "great" song and have to be some groudbreaking thing? I mean, face it... even IAW isn't really groundbreaking. Take Kansas and mix it with Metallica and Rush and viola... The fact is, it's just a great album and groundbreaking doesn't mean squat anyway... I can think of a lot of groundbreaking albums that are crap to my ears.

There is A LOT of Rush vibes going on in this album... that along with the VERY Megadeth vibes at time to time is almost too much at times. It could have been a little more obscured... but...

So, now that my little rant about categorization and ridiculous expectations is over...

Mike shut up his singing? I don't know what you hear, and the cookie monster stuff not withstanding, but Mike has a better overall voice than James. Listen to the way he sings the chorus to Lines In The Sand on the Chaos in Motion dvd... I'm sorry, but THAT is why people dog him. Or how about the constistantly sharp and tone deaf crap he does on Only A Matter of Time or whatever he's doing on Hollow Years on Budokon? As for Geoff Tate... I'm seeing a lot of dogging on him as of late with his out of tune singing and the damage he's doing by smoking like a frieght train.... In fact... that's the general consensus I'm seeing amonst musicians in all circles I come across.

James sounds GREAT on this album for the most part. I don't like the WOAHS at the end of a couple of the tracks... don't add the whoa Hoah Hoah Hs there James...

But that's been his problem... he sounds amazing on records... and VERY hit and miss live. Everyone I have showed Motion to just cringes... Years ago, even after his throat problem, he was not only more in tune (except the scratched high notes), but he didn't do that grating vibrato to cover up the fact that he must not be able to hear a darn thing in those in ear monitors.

I've sat with the vocal teacher at my college and we both agree... he oversings live. He tries to make things more aggressive and dig in and instead of it working... it just sound strained, out of tune, and that wide crappy vibrato... I mean.. why doesn't he just sing like he does on the record? I mean.. mimic it for crying out loud... Sheesh.

I'm not bashing him per se... like I said... I think he sounds awesome on all the records, including this one. Thin? Where? The production leaves him up front with the mids enough that he doesn't sit in the track and sounds thin... but his voice isn't thin on this album. Sorry. It isn't.

However... the falsetto on the Queen track (and Queen is my favorite band period so they were either going to piss me off with this, or make me smile from ear to ear... the latter happened unitl the falsetto.) There's that vibrato again... trying to be emotional and dramatic and instead... he sounds like a grandpa trying to sing. He was too clean on the Funster track... Roger is all rasp and the clean didn't quite work, but at least it was in tune and sounded good for what it was. The falsetto... James has done much better falsetto than that on record and live.

50 year old guys? Woah... don't put me in my 40s yet. LOL Only Jordan is over 50. The rest are under 45. Whew. lol Not sure what you're talking about though with old guys singing about that stuff... what stuff? Count of Tuscany? Whither? It would be weird if they were singing about partying and getting laid every weekend... but that would have been weird when they were in their 20s. lol Dio was singing about more fantasy type things than anything on this album well into his 50s. LOL The Rush thing... that alone very much contradicts what I read when people talk about it being modern and traditional genre etc. This album is much more classic and prog than SC, which was very modern and... whoever said something about this being a typical italian metal band album... No, that was a lot of SC. Not this one. LOL Although, Lacuna Coil I'm hearing NOT on either of these.

As for IAW... again... why does everything have to be written a certain way? Just because this album doesn't have melodies like the opening vox in Metropolis over those rhythms doesn't mean it's less mature. If anything, this sounds more mature in terms of being less risky musically.

Back to just general comments.. the production is also MUCH MORE LIKE IT. SC just sucked. I didn't think so until I heard this. No, not production... mastering, and mixing. SC just sounds flat and overcompressed. Now, the cymbals are back to life, and those great guitar tones aren't being wasted sitting in a terrible mix. MP in particular was just robbed by SC's mix. I can't imagine he was happy about it.

The guitars seem less doubled this time. More of a couple of mics on one speaker sound, rather than doubling parts sound. Both happen on all records, but SC seemed to be leaning very heavily in the doubled direction. This one sounds a little more diverse rhythm guitar wise.

Oddly enough as I type all of this I keep thinking... these are just the little thoughts I have as a musician and gear head... most of them mean absolutely nothing to the quality of this album. The songs are good and I enjoyed listening to it. Is it my favorite? No, but when you're talking about DT, their worst is better than my favorite album of a lot of bands so... I guess the nitpicking to the degree I see it all over the internet just gets old. It can't be just fun stuff to talk about... it has to turn into "This is crap because I say so" with arguments that don't even fly technically. In reality, the reason its crap to so and so is simply because they don't like it and saying that a song that may even be more compositionally daring than an earlier song referenced is not as prog, or whatever it may be isn't really why.

I would say it seems very American to overanalyze this stuff... but its everywhere. I think we just have too much access to too much stuff and we're spoiled.

[Brand X]

First my thoughts...

I'll have to think about how this compares to Octavarium for me, but the title track of that album alone puts this one ahead of it I think. 8V is just too long and repetative to me. Other than that 8V is one of my fave DT albums. Love the catchy hooks mixed with the heavy prog tunes.

BCASL is much better than SC to my ears. My reaction from start to finish is... this is more like it. Having said that, there were several songs I really liked on SC, but too many throw away tracks and this one doesn't have those I don't THINK. I'm not sure how I feel about Best of Times.

I love Whither. I wonder what filter people put on when they listen to a DT album... can't a song just be good and nice to listen to... does it ALWAYS have to be compared to some "great" song and have to be some groudbreaking thing? I mean, face it... even IAW isn't really groundbreaking. Take Kansas and mix it with Metallica and Rush and viola... The fact is, it's just a great album and groundbreaking doesn't mean squat anyway... I can think of a lot of groundbreaking albums that are crap to my ears.

There is A LOT of Rush vibes going on in this album... that along with the VERY Megadeth vibes at time to time is almost too much at times. It could have been a little more obscured... but...

So, now that my little rant about categorization and ridiculous expectations is over...

Mike shut up his singing? I don't know what you hear, and the cookie monster stuff not withstanding, but Mike has a better overall voice than James. Listen to the way he sings the chorus to Lines In The Sand on the Chaos in Motion dvd... I'm sorry, but THAT is why people dog him. Or how about the constistantly sharp and tone deaf crap he does on Only A Matter of Time or whatever he's doing on Hollow Years on Budokon? As for Geoff Tate... I'm seeing a lot of dogging on him as of late with his out of tune singing and the damage he's doing by smoking like a frieght train.... In fact... that's the general consensus I'm seeing amonst musicians in all circles I come across.

James sounds GREAT on this album for the most part. I don't like the WOAHS at the end of a couple of the tracks... don't add the whoa Hoah Hoah Hs there James...

But that's been his problem... he sounds amazing on records... and VERY hit and miss live. Everyone I have showed Motion to just cringes... Years ago, even after his throat problem, he was not only more in tune (except the scratched high notes), but he didn't do that grating vibrato to cover up the fact that he must not be able to hear a darn thing in those in ear monitors.

I've sat with the vocal teacher at my college and we both agree... he oversings live. He tries to make things more aggressive and dig in and instead of it working... it just sound strained, out of tune, and that wide crappy vibrato... I mean.. why doesn't he just sing like he does on the record? I mean.. mimic it for crying out loud... Sheesh.

I'm not bashing him per se... like I said... I think he sounds awesome on all the records, including this one. Thin? Where? The production leaves him up front with the mids enough that he doesn't sit in the track and sounds thin... but his voice isn't thin on this album. Sorry. It isn't.

However... the falsetto on the Queen track (and Queen is my favorite band period so they were either going to piss me off with this, or make me smile from ear to ear... the latter happened unitl the falsetto.) There's that vibrato again... trying to be emotional and dramatic and instead... he sounds like a grandpa trying to sing. He was too clean on the Funster track... Roger is all rasp and the clean didn't quite work, but at least it was in tune and sounded good for what it was. The falsetto... James has done much better falsetto than that on record and live.

50 year old guys? Woah... don't put me in my 40s yet. LOL Only Jordan is over 50. The rest are under 45. Whew. lol Not sure what you're talking about though with old guys singing about that stuff... what stuff? Count of Tuscany? Whither? It would be weird if they were singing about partying and getting laid every weekend... but that would have been weird when they were in their 20s. lol Dio was singing about more fantasy type things than anything on this album well into his 50s. LOL The Rush thing... that alone very much contradicts what I read when people talk about it being modern and traditional genre etc. This album is much more classic and prog than SC, which was very modern and... whoever said something about this being a typical italian metal band album... No, that was a lot of SC. Not this one. LOL Although, Lacuna Coil I'm hearing NOT on either of these.

As for IAW... again... why does everything have to be written a certain way? Just because this album doesn't have melodies like the opening vox in Metropolis over those rhythms doesn't mean it's less mature. If anything, this sounds more mature in terms of being less risky musically.

Back to just general comments.. the production is also MUCH MORE LIKE IT. SC just sucked. I didn't think so until I heard this. No, not production... mastering, and mixing. SC just sounds flat and overcompressed. Now, the cymbals are back to life, and those great guitar tones aren't being wasted sitting in a terrible mix. MP in particular was just robbed by SC's mix. I can't imagine he was happy about it.

The guitars seem less doubled this time. More of a couple of mics on one speaker sound, rather than doubling parts sound. Both happen on all records, but SC seemed to be leaning very heavily in the doubled direction. This one sounds a little more diverse rhythm guitar wise.

Oddly enough as I type all of this I keep thinking... these are just the little thoughts I have as a musician and gear head... most of them mean absolutely nothing to the quality of this album. The songs are good and I enjoyed listening to it. Is it my favorite? No, but when you're talking about DT, their worst is better than my favorite album of a lot of bands so... I guess the nitpicking to the degree I see it all over the internet just gets old. It can't be just fun stuff to talk about... it has to turn into "This is crap because I say so" with arguments that don't even fly technically. In reality, the reason its crap to so and so is simply because they don't like it and saying that a song that may even be more compositionally daring than an earlier song referenced is not as prog, or whatever it may be isn't really why.

I would say it seems very American to overanalyze this stuff... but its everywhere. I think we just have too much access to too much stuff and we're spoiled.

obviously I bow to your superior knowledge of everything ! Lol. I feel I have to become American now and over analyse this in return!

Seriously though.....I think the internet (particularly Youtube) has hurt a lot of singers. A few years ago, you had the CD - and then you go see your bands on tour. That was all opinion would be based upon....When I saw DT on the CIM tour - jesus, they were just awesome and James was great. However, on some You Tube footage - it sounds poor sometimes...but this is the case with a lot of singers - particularly of James style......

MP's voice does frustrate me - it grates me for some reason and I don't agree that he sings better than James...I just don't fathom that. Yes he in tune - but he has no character at all (Kind of like when Steve Vai sings - it's in tune but.....bleeeagugh!)....and why the need to sing on pretty much everything? Just my opinions...it doesn't detract from the band at all.

Lyrics - Well, I apologise for getting their ages slightly wrong...I just took Jordans age and generalised as I'm not into looking up the ages of men ;o) - but even so......some of the lyrics are not good when you consider the bar has been set so high (octavarium, SDOIT etc), but obviously JP and MP have the monopoly here.......but do you not think that James would have something interesting to say on some of these songs? Is everyone that curious to hear how MP's symphony of alcohol addiction ends? I doubt we were queing for the cd thinking ''I gotta hear how Mike's alcohol suite ends!??' Huge ego - anyone? Once again - I love MP and his drumming, but sometimes he can be grating (to me, obviously not everyone)....probably because he's so 'in your face' all the time

I gotta say though - the last four minutes of The Count of Tuscany is possibly the most goose-bump inducing piece of music I've ever heard - and James voice is incredibly emotive here....

Agree about the general engineering - it sounds awesome.

[Trev]

The CD sounds great, but I'm a tad dissapointed that John Myung's incredible tone from his bass seems to be softened and a bit "wooly". It seems to be a waste of fabulous EB bass tone.

The tone he had from the Download Fest was just awesome - really grinding - a la Steve Harris and Geddy Lee.

Other than that - I am really diggin' this album. The guys are totally on top of their game.

[MikeVt]

I gotta say though - the last four minutes of The Count of Tuscany is possibly the most goose-bump inducing piece of music I've ever heard - and James voice is incredibly emotive here....

I too LOVE TCOT - especially the last several minutes. To me, it ranks up there with the last few minutes of Octavarium. VERY emotive and grand. Great stuff...

Mike

[RocketRalf]

Nice post Mesavox. You gave me hope for the new album. I'm still trying to find it

[RocketRalf]

I finally got it!

I don't want to get loose here with a 3 page long post so I'll be as short as possible. Some of the songs on this album left a very good taste in my mouth, namely A Nightmare, The Best of Times and Tuscany. I actually didn't like TBOT too much (more on that later), but in these three songs I felt like they were trying, and for the most part, succeeded in delivering a message and not simply write some cool riffs and put some random lyrics to it (which is what Systematic Chaos felt to me).

A Nightmare to Remember is probably my favorite song (a first for an album opener to me). It shows the intensity of the situation, you actually get nervous and feel the situation happening. The latter part of the song with the solos and spoken vocals wasn't as excellent as the beginning and the end very end of the song IMO, but overall a very very nice song merging some of my favorite features of DT: The TOT riffs, the emotional moments, catchy choruses and great tones from everyone.

A Rite of Passage was meh. The metal single, very SC like. A cool riff with a catchy chorus and the reglamentary guitar and keyboard solo. Props to Rudess for trying something new with the iPhone solo.

Wither is a fine example of how good DT can get at arranging and orchestration. A beautiful catchy chorus, and very emotional everywhere. This song reminds me of I Walk Beside You, which I liked a lot also.

The Shattered Fortress. A fitting conclusion to the AA saga. I didn't like any of the songs much so I didn't dig this one either. I liked some of the rearrangements of the older riffs, loved the new riffs, but didn't like all the transitions nor the identical replays of some of the older riffs.

The Best of Times is very good to me in concept, but i didn't like the realization of it. The intro was GREAT, so cool, finally a good, uncompressed, pro piano sound! Until the violin enters. I'm sorry, but the violin solo was not up to my standards of how a violin should be played. I didn't like it at all and that probably ruined the rest of the song for me. The rest of the song was ok, I liked some of the main themes, some not too much. The guitar solo was good, perfectly crafted and played and technically demanding. I'm just not too much into solos anymore.

The Count of Tuscany gave me a revelation and suddenly turned me more tolerant to how DT write. These guys have found a way of writing that defines them, identifies them and everyone has fun hearing and playing it, which is the Dance of Eternity like instrumental parts that have been present now for the last 3 albums. It's more of the same to me, but now I appreciate it in a different way. So it was ok until that point. Until the chorus came. Wow. The chorus is sick, scary and emotional at the same time, one of the best choruses on a DT song ever. From then on the song kept getting better. The final slower third of the song was fabulous.

A few more general comments about the whole album. The band sounds better than ever. So much better it's making it hard for me to listen to the older albums! The keyboard sounds are all amazing, the gothic choir, the synth string sound, the organs, I feel like Rudess has solidified his place in the mix since Octavarium and he's capitalizing on it with cooler and cooler sounds that are resposible for much of DT's actual and unique sound. The guitar tones are different to the JP tone we're used to, but it works better on a band setting. He's got heavier and cuts trough better, which can never go wrong. JM was low on the mix like always. MP was very emotional everywhere, he always gives it all. James disappointed me a little, but I don't think it's all his fault. He doesn't always seem to connect with the song and thus is not always showing enough emotion about what he's singing. He was great at times though. Also, he didn't have a chance to show his range here. Some of the verses (in TBOT for example) could easily have been an octave higher to let him do what he does best. I think all 3 singers (and the lyric writers too) could get a boost by getting some coaching in the area. Not a huge issue though, we all know DT is not about lyrics and pretty songs, but it would be nice.

Overall I give it 4 out of 5. A very nice sounding, diverse album that shows emotion and promise for what's to come both on tour and the future albums, different and going forward, yet very DT.

[the24thfret]

I gotta say though - the last four minutes of The Count of Tuscany is possibly the most goose-bump inducing piece of music I've ever heard - and James voice is incredibly emotive here....

Definitely the best piece of music on the album, and only 4 chords!!! Look how simple it is. And yeah, that is James' best peformance on the album too. I'm glad they didn't up the vox compression, it would have taken the dynamic away.

[patpark]

My favorites so far:
Count of Tuscany
The Best of Times
A Rite of Passage

great driving music.