Help: Anyone else with tennis elblow? (lateral epicondylitis)

[Pain-Free Music]

Hi Everyone,

I haven't posted in the forums in awhile. Partly because I like reading people's comments and seeing pictures, but mainly because I'm too busy playing my AS! However, I saw this post and knew that I had to respond because this is my area of expertise.

First off, an introduction. My name is Jim O'Gara, M.Mus., LMT. I am proud EBMM Axis Sport owner. (That's me at B.B. King's.) [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suLkdPTxlJ4"]YouTube- Excuse Me: No Doubt Tribute. Different People at BB Kings[/ame] I am also a licensed massage therapist who specializes in the treatment of repetitive strain injuries, particularly those developed by musicians. I should know about those I had bi-lateral carpal tunnel syndrome, cubital tunnel syndrome and thoracic outlet syndrome. I had been playing an instrument since 7 and by 26 both arms were in complete, and constant pain and numbness. Believe me when I say to you all dealing with repetitive strain injuries, "I feel your pain!" Mine was so bad I was considering suicide. ( You can read my bio at Jim O'Gara's Bio .)

It was through muscular therapy that I was able to get rid of all three conditions and it is through the same therapy that I am able to continue to play today relatively pain free. (The pain only comes back when I don't follow my self-massage treatment schedule.) The above video I linked to was 1.5 years after I hit rock bottom with my pain and started recovering.

I'd like to offer my help to ANYONE on this forum who encounters repetitive strain injuries. My personal email is jimogara@massaagetherapy.com , contact me there and we'll set up a time to talk on the phone. I can guarantee you will see a dramatic decrease in pain within a week, and can have it totally gone within a month.

My personal thoughts about some of the treatments already mentioned:

1. Do NOT play through the pain! The pain is telling you a message, and that is to stop for awhile and treat your muscles! If you can, during your recovery phase, dramatically decrease your playing time as playing, ie putting repetitive strain on the muscles that got you this pain in the first place, is only going to lengthen the time needed to recover.

2. Cortisone/corticosteriod shots are ok in the short term, and in limited use, for a couple of reasons. 1) While they decrease the swelling in the tendons, they are not addressing the factors that caused the tendon swell, namely the overly tight extensor muscles. 2) Repeated cortisone shots lead to tissue degeneration.

3. Surgery should only be seen as a last resort. And even then, if one doesn't not release the tension in the muscles pulling on the tendons, causing inflammation and thereby compressing nerves, the pain will inevitably come back. (Google CTS recurral rates after surgery.)

4. While I can not help someone totally eliminate their pain with rheumatoid arthritis, as it is a immune system disease, I can teach you to greatly decrease it by relieving the pressure of the muscles that are pulling on your joints. (arthr-joint, itis-inflammation.)


To the original poster with the tennis elbow, I say, "You're not alone!" I've met a number of trombone players with the same injuries. The good thing, perhaps the greatest of things, is that there is hope. (referencing "shawshank redemption" there.) Tennis elbow is relatively easy to get rid of in a short time.

To BP and any other EBMM folk, thank your for making your guitars very comfortable to play! Their ergonomics really help in lessening repetitive strain injuries. And if you would ever want me to come to the factory to give y'all (I'm in NC, we say "y'all" here.) a clinic in self-massage for repetitive strain injuries, I am totally game!

Now back to playing my Axis Sport.......

[ProtoChicken]

I suffered with it in my picking arm starting in 1994. I was at Berklee at the time so I played through the pain which turned out to be a really bad idea. It resulted in me not being to open doors, take left hand turns in my car, or even sign my name with out severe pain.

I ended up at Brigham and Women's hospital musician's injury specialty clinic, and after that had two different stints at Sports Medicine rehab center in Boston. It took two years to feel good again, and in the end I quit playing for 3 years after playing for 20 out of frustration due to frequent recurrences, all because I was stubborn and didn't follow through with my physical therapy and strengthening exercises, and couldn't be bothered to warm up properly. When I decided to play again I made a concerted effort to take care of my arm properly and it's made a world of difference. I wish I had done that in the first place 15 years ago.

I won't bore everyone to death with the details, but if you need any advice on preventive and healing exercises as well as a couple of devices I found that did wonders for me shoot me a PM.

I will echo Pain-Free Music's sentiments (his advice is spot on in every way) and say that as hard as it is, if you are told to rest your injury then rest it. Also as much as a pain as it is 15 minutes of warming up and stretching before picking up your guitar is essential. I still have flare ups, but they are easily manageable, and usually as a result of me not warming up before playing.

[Vito Porkleone]

Smelly - A tip for you...

When I went through this a couple of years ago, one thing that REALLY helped was to keep the arm straight while sleeping. This really relieved the pressure on the elbow during the night, and it definitely helped alleviate the symptoms until the latter part of the day.

It's hard to do at first, but if you think about it when you first go to bed, after a few nights you'll start to catch yourself bending your arm during the night. Sounds weird, I know, but that, along with some rest and ibuprofen will do wonders.

[Smellybum]

WOW!

Thanks a lot you guys,
Loads to be getting on with, sorry so many of you are in the same boat, but thanks for the advice, my main job is IT support and typing along with guitars seems to be triggering it the most, hopefully I can rest over the festives....

Thanks again..

[Miqueas92]

Me TOOOOOOO!!!

My Dr. just told me to not play anymore, well, you know how that went over

Mine was so bad that I could not hold anything up with the palm of my left hand turned up. Playing wasn´t so bad, it was the aftermath.

But, it is a lot better today. Sometimes it still hurts but very managable.

What did I do?

I moved my guitar higher up on my body, it took loads of strain off of my elbow. It does not look so cool but....

It still hurts from time to time but, I play about 5 hours a week at Church and a lot of practice at home. I can hold everything I want to, even lift weights with minimal pain.

I´m very interested in the remedies mentioned here, especially the warm up and stretching ideas, could you elaborate Proto¿¿


Mick

[axmancometh]

Hey Bum:

Sorry to hear about your ailment. Just happened across this topic and felt compelled to weigh in since a mention was made regarding Penetrex. I am both a golfer and musician and about 2 years ago I began to develop tennis elbow and tendonitis throughout my forearm.

On advice from my wife's boss, an avid golfer, I purchased 3 jars of Penetrex. Why this product is not better known is amazing to me...it flat out works! It provided immediate and lasting relief that other products could not and it did it at a fraction of the price.

To this day I continue to use it occasionally for my arm but have actually found it very effective for neck & back pain as well. I recommend you give it a try and best of luck in the days and weeks ahead.

Jim

[straycat113]

Batyak that is exactly what I have Cubital Tunnel Syndrome along with a Neuroma in my thumb.

Nice to see that a couple of guys on here are ex pugs, as I turned down the option of turning pro when I was 20 over a weight issue but that is a different subject. Though the abuse on the hands over the years does not help when you also play guitar.

It has now been 27 months since I have really been able to play out. Just to clear things up if your pinkie and ring finger go numb it is Cubital, if it is your index and middle it is carpal. I would aggravate the Cubital if I used my pinkie heavily and when it got too bad I would have to stop for two weeks and sleep with an issue of Vintage Guitar that was rolled up and taped and I would slip my arm into it before I went to sleep so it could not bend and in a week it would be fine.

The Neuroma on the inside joint of my thumb is the problem that has made it almost impossible for me to play. A Neuroma is a small tumor like mass that is made up of live nerve endings that gives off the feeling you get when you bang your funny bone -you know that shock. Well I feel that everytime my inside thumb joint hits the neck. After 2 years and 3 doctors Ionly have the option of surgery which I really cant wait to get done and get back to playing. The only playing I can do now is if the pad of my thumb is directly on the back of the neck ,I may be able to play some 3 note per string and arpeggio patterns.

What advice I will give that will help anyone that does not have major issues is- stretch out your hands before playing ,Petrucci shows some good ones on his DVD, run warm water over your hands for a few minutes before playing as this gets the blood flowing and really helps-got this from Steve Morse 10 years ago. For every 60 -90 minutes you play take a 10 minute break, this is probably the most important, especially if you are getting up there in years, take an anti inflammatory like Aleeve when things flair up, take a day off every 2 weeks and STOP if you ever feel pain. I have broken everyone of these rules when I was young and it was not till my last doctor said I may never play again did I take things serious. Believe me you never want to hear those words.

[Smellybum]

holy old thread batman!


I have a wee update -

I now attend a physio therapist for my elbow, and get ultrasound treatment which helps immensely

I also take cod liver oil capsules with multivitimans, and in cold weather use a cream called

Still hurts now and again, and is annoying but very managable - hope this helps others....

[threeminutesboy]

I feel for you smelly

Like the others said rest is the key to the healing

[candyredsilo]

I had it a couple of years ago. What I found out was that mine stemmed from my neck and shoulder pain. The doctor told me that I was working my elbow too much to compensate for the neck and shoulder. So I changed a few things:
-I had the mouse and keyboard lowerd on my desk at work because I was constantly lifting my arms to work at the computer all day.
-I started stretching my neck and shoulder muscles every morning and throughout the day
-I wore a brace that I bought at a pharmacy specifically for tennis elbow (when you put this thing on the right spot...ecstacy. I mean it!)
-anti inflamatories! Take them like clockwork
-Don't overdo it!

Within about 6 months, I was good to go. I still stretch and pay attention to my posture.

Bill

[paulstew64]

Smelly

Sorry to read of your news.

Colin had great advice about light picking. The only way I can practice it really well is to turn my amp up and pick as lightly as I can to keep the volume at my normal levels. It's amazing how much this improves right hand technique. It's also good for left hand too as you need to have more precise placement. Superb for muting practice too.

All the best.

Paul