Noise: How do I tame it?

**bkrumme** · 02-26-2010, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by petruccirocks02

Brad, I wouldn't even worry about the noise since you have that decimator. That thing should knock out any noise you have.

-Phil

It will definitely take care of it with some undesirable side effects. If I can't find another solution, I'll figure out a way to make it work only on channel 3.

**bkrumme** · 02-26-2010, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by nobozos

I don't know if it will fix your specific noise problem, but I do have a suggestion that will improve your overall tone.

I noticed in your description that you were using a true-bypass overdrive pedal as the only pedal between your guitar and the amp. This is not good for your tone.

When your pedal is turned on, the pedal's power is boosting the guitars signal through the legnth of cord between the pedal and the amp. The guitar's pickup only has to drive the legnth of cord between the guitar and the pedal, therefore, the only signal loss occurs through that shorter length of cable. When you turn off the pedal in a true bypass pedal, you effectively double, or even triple the legnth of cord that the gutiar's pickup has to drive to get to the amp. This dramatically increases the signal loss between the guitar, and the amp's input. There is good news though:

If you love the sound of your true bypass pedal, but you don't want the signal loss, the fix is easy. Simply put a buffered bypass pedal in front of your true bypass pedal. I believe Boss pedals have the best buffered bypass. So, put a Boss Chromatic tuner in front of your true bypass overdrive, and the legnth of cable between the Tuner and the amp is now driven by the buffered bypass of the Tuner pedal, instead of your pickup. The result is better signal fidelity.

I hadn't thought about that, but you're right. There's about 40' of cable between my guitar and amp because of that. More copper in those cables to pick up interference and add some capacitance. I knew I needed a buffer of some kind, but didn't think about it possibly contributing to my problem.

I'm looking into different OD pedals right now anyway, so I'll try to find a buffered one, or I'll just build a DIY buffer. I don't really *need* the OD, so I'll just take it out of the chain until I find the one I want or build the buffer.

Originally Posted by beej

If the OD pedal is fully bypassed, either it's not shielded well and is picking up interference or one of your cables is.

That's what I was thinking after nobozos comment. I'll try guitar>cable>amp first chance I get and see if it helps.

**nobozos** · 02-26-2010, 08:57 AM

I wouldn't give up on the overdrive pedal if it contributes good, colorful tone and gain into the amp. I have a 5150 Combo, (I know, it's not in the same league as a Mark IV) and I use an overdrive pedal with it because it makes the amp sound better.

I've found that if I turn the gain down on my amp, and run an overdrive in front of the amp, I get a more toneful, transparent and useable gain than if I were to use only the gain produced by my amp.

The 5150 Combo at the lower gain setting (on the Rythym channel with the Crunch button out) without the overdrive pedal on allows me to have a relatively decent clean sound with the volume on my guitar rolled back to 6 or 7, and a good 70's rock guitar tone with the guitar volume on 10. With the Crunch button in, you can get good higher gain rythym tones, and great lead tones with the overdrive on. On the lead channel, with the gain rolled back and the overdrive off, you get a good heavy rythym tone, and an insane lead gain with the overdrive on. The overdrive pedal is almost like a 3rd and 4th channel on my amp.

**PeteDuBaldo** · 02-26-2010, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by bkrumme

LOL. If only I played music which didn't require the high gain. Maybe it's time to stop playing metal

AFAIK, it's only when the guitar is plugged in, but I haven't tried it. I'll add this to my list of things to try.

Brad, didn't you get the memo? The JP isn't a metal guitar!

Heh heh heh

**bkrumme** · 02-26-2010, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by PeteDuBaldo

Brad, didn't you get the memo? The JP isn't a metal guitar!

Heh heh heh

LOL. No, it's made of wood

**bkrumme** · 02-26-2010, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by nobozos

I wouldn't give up on the overdrive pedal if it contributes good, colorful tone and gain into the amp. I have a 5150 Combo, (I know, it's not in the same league as a Mark IV) and I use an overdrive pedal with it because it makes the amp sound better.

I've found that if I turn the gain down on my amp, and run an overdrive in front of the amp, I get a more toneful, transparent and useable gain than if I were to use only the gain produced by my amp.

The 5150 Combo at the lower gain setting (on the Rythym channel with the Crunch button out) without the overdrive pedal on allows me to have a relatively decent clean sound with the volume on my guitar rolled back to 6 or 7, and a good 70's rock guitar tone with the guitar volume on 10. With the Crunch button in, you can get good higher gain rythym tones, and great lead tones with the overdrive on. On the lead channel, with the gain rolled back and the overdrive off, you get a good heavy rythym tone, and an insane lead gain with the overdrive on. The overdrive pedal is almost like a 3rd and 4th channel on my amp.

I'm completely with you here. That's the exact reason I have an overdrive pedal in the first place. The one I have is good, but not great. I'd love to get into an overdrive that can give me really smooth, buttery overdrive. That's a different thread, though.

I was thinking about your comment earlier that I should get a buffered pedal, specifically a Boss and I remembered I have a Boss OS-2 at home that I'm not using. I could always throw that in the chain to use as a buffer.

**jcm900** · 02-26-2010, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by petruccirocks02

Brad, keep in mind that the noise on the high gain channel could be coming from a bad preamp tube possibly. Do you get any cracking or hissing? I would try tapping each preamp tube with an eraser if you can and see if you get any cracking or hissing. If you do, you know you have a bad preamp tube.

-Phil

+1 on this one.

The stock tubes can cause lot of trouble.

Using high quality cables can also eliminate the hum. I'd try both of them.

By the way, check out the Mesa forum there are loads of useful informations there, and nice folks, too.

**jbhafner** · 02-26-2010, 07:20 PM

I remember reading an article by Steve Morse years ago about getting rid of ground problems. I don't know if yours is a ground problem but he started with the guitar itself. Just make sure that the guitar doesn't have a grounding issue first. Then move through the chain. I would probably plug everything in individually first then start combining 2 effects at a time. Sometimes things don't operate as they are supposed too.

**Dante** · 02-26-2010, 08:05 PM

hmm, i just got a java boost for giving it some (metal) whelly and a boss tu3 is in the near future. i guess that will be my buffer. i i get trouble with noise then i'll get the ISP as well.

**bkrumme** · 03-01-2010, 07:37 AM

A little update for you guys. There were a few things I tried. Here's what I did and what the outcome was:

1. Guitar straight to the amp with a high-quality cable. I used a Mogami Gold cable which is known to be good. The noise was a bit less, but not so much as to be a good improvement. It basically sounded the same, but I expected this since the noise isn't really that bad.

2. Checked the preamp tubes. I did a little tap on each of the preamp tubes with the volume up on my guitar and the strings muted. No noticeable difference and there wasn't any crackling or hissing. No microphonic tubes or anything like that.

3. Checked my guitar for ground issues. Long story short, my BFR JP7 is working perfectly.

4. Added one piece back into the signal chain at a time to find what might be adding a bit of noise. No real improvement. I also added a Boss TU-3 since I needed a tuner anyway. I didn't notice a big change in tone with the buffered pedal in the chain.

5. I finally conceded to the idea that the Decimator may be the only way to really get rid of the noise and I put it back in my rig. I didn't want to because I lose the reverb from my amp, but I did it anyway. I guess I'll have to add a good reverb pedal to my FX loop.

**Jack FFR1846** · 03-01-2010, 08:09 AM

I know you've ruled out the guitar......but I have one noisy guitar that I know is a grounding problem of some kind. Hand on the strings...noise is gone....hand off the strings...noise humming right through. If I use my Line 6 digital wireless system, it's quiet as can be all the time. I'll be going through this guitar anyways, but for the moment, it's been a good band aid.

**RocketRalf** · 03-01-2010, 08:38 AM

Take in mind that humbuckers are not perfectly silent, they will always pick some harmonics from the 60 cycle ambient hum. Does the amount of noise change when you change pickup selection?

Here's two related questions I'd like to know:

1)What is a quality, durable, economic cable? I always have issues with my cables on the connectors, the soldering breaks or something, i don't know, but every cable has failed me.

2)How can I check if my guitar has ground issues and how can I fix it?

**bkrumme** · 03-01-2010, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by RocketRalf

Take in mind that humbuckers are not perfectly silent, they will always pick some harmonics from the 60 cycle ambient hum. Does the amount of noise change when you change pickup selection?

I don't notice any difference when changing the pickup selection, except when switching to the center coils in parallel, which makes sense since the output of that selection is lower.

Originally Posted by RocketRalf

Here's two related questions I'd like to know:

1)What is a quality, durable, economic cable? I always have issues with my cables on the connectors, the soldering breaks or something, i don't know, but every cable has failed me.

2)How can I check if my guitar has ground issues and how can I fix it?

1) I've had very good luck with Mogami Gold cables. I also use products from Guitar Cable with great results.

2) Here's a decent, not perfect, explanation: Alexplorer's Axe Hacks: All About Grounding