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SUB Series Silo3 Issue with String Tension (downward) behind nut?

This is a discussion on SUB Series Silo3 Issue with String Tension (downward) behind nut? within the Music Man Guitars forums, part of the Gear Talk category; Above is a picture of my new Silo 3, which I really think is an excellent guitar for the price ...

  1. #1
    StormJH1 is offline Registered User Newbie
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    SUB Series Silo3 Issue with String Tension (downward) behind nut?

    SUB Series Silo3 Issue with String Tension (downward) behind nut?-8183829133_2c1f56c94e_n.jpg

    Above is a picture of my new Silo 3, which I really think is an excellent guitar for the price range. However, after restringing for the first time, I've noticed some sustain issues on the 4th (G) and 5th (B) strings, and they sometimes go wildly out of tune also (which the guitar didn't do at all before).

    What I figured out is that since the tuning pegs are furthest away from the nut on those strings, there is very little downward pressure on the nut for those two strings. The string can be "tuned", but it almost wants to mute itself on the nut because it is close to a 0 degree angle, if that makes any sense.

    The easiest fix might be to wrap the string so it releases from lower on the tuning peg. I have my string releasing more in the middle, and that could be part of the issue.

    Is there anything else I could be adusting? Would the truss rod do anything? If so, which way would I crank it?

    Thanks for the input. I notice that the downward pressure on the higher strings is important for this reason, which is why you see those "string trees" on other headstock designs, such as this:

    SUB Series Silo3 Issue with String Tension (downward) behind nut?-53222d1352907446-fender-squier-expert-needed-fendersquierseriesheadstock.jpg

  2. #2
    Jack FFR1846's Avatar
    Jack FFR1846 is offline Registered User Senior Member
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    Designs with string trees are because of the long distance and flat headstock making it impossible to get a correct angle, so the band aid is to add trees. I assume that the silo 3 has the same angled headstock that SBMM and EBMM guitars have. That being the case, I'm going to say to get a sharp pencil and "write" on the grooves of the nut. Then stretch the strings well. I find that doing those 2 things have made even the cheapest guitar with the crappiest tuners stay perfectly in tune and sound fine. The strings have to be able to move in the nut unless you have string locks (aka Axis). Even my son's "shark" guitar (the body is shaped like a shark) that has trapazoidal tuners (crap) stays in perfect tune.

    I'll add that over the last couple years, I've had dozens of string tree'd guitars. With those, you have to also put goop under the trees unless they're rollers.
    8/17/04 EBMM Axis SS MM90 trans blue (spaceball 3000)
    7/29/04 EBMM Sub1 X11376 oil/wax neck, gloss black body, faux binding, HSS w/5 way and silent circuit
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    buncha non-ebmm guitars
    keep in mind that you are talking about four pieces of wood two pots one switch a trem along with springs two pickups and some wire.....BP

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    douglasspears is offline Registered User Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormJH1 View Post
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    The easiest fix might be to wrap the string so it releases from lower on the tuning peg. I have my string releasing more in the middle, and that could be part of the issue.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    you answered your own question.

    Jack is answering the follow up question that you may also ask: "ok, I've got the string angle fixed, but it still goes out of tune when I use the whammy bar"

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    SBMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormJH1 View Post
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    The easiest fix might be to wrap the string so it releases from lower on the tuning peg. I have my string releasing more in the middle, and that could be part of the issue.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yes, you'll need to wrap the strings so that the lead off of the string is from the bottom of the tuning machine peg.

    Glad that you enjoy your new Silo3!

    Be sure that you join the Sterling By Music Man Facebook page. We have a lot of tech tips, new product news, and some nice SWAG giveaways as well
    Brian Martin
    Vice President of Sales & Marketing, Product Specialist
    Praxis Musical
    Home of Sterling By Music Man

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    StormJH1 is offline Registered User Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack FFR1846 View Post
    Designs with string trees are because of the long distance and flat headstock making it impossible to get a correct angle, so the band aid is to add trees. I assume that the silo 3 has the same angled headstock that SBMM and EBMM guitars have. That being the case, I'm going to say to get a sharp pencil and "write" on the grooves of the nut. Then stretch the strings well. I find that doing those 2 things have made even the cheapest guitar with the crappiest tuners stay perfectly in tune and sound fine. The strings have to be able to move in the nut unless you have string locks (aka Axis). Even my son's "shark" guitar (the body is shaped like a shark) that has trapazoidal tuners (crap) stays in perfect tune.

    I'll add that over the last couple years, I've had dozens of string tree'd guitars. With those, you have to also put goop under the trees unless they're rollers.
    If I were at home, I would take a side-view picture to show you, but yes, it is a slight angle on the headstock. The string needs to slide in there (and yes, I have started using pencils as a "graphite lubricant" on the nut), but obviously, it can't just run through the nut at a nearly flat angle, or the string will basically kill itself on the nut. I think that's what's happening and the "fix" might be wrap the string so that it has a lower release point, which the 3rd post seemed to agree with. (BTW. I don't use the whammy bar ever, in large part because it tends to throw things out of tune).

    It just seemed to me that such a minor thing like how you wrap the string shouldn't mess up the the guitar that badly. Therefore, I wondered if it was a design flaw or if there was some other setting I could adjust to fix it, though I don't know what that would be.

    I have an extra set of 9's at home. I might throw those on tonight, or pick up some 10's on the way home from work.

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    StormJH1 is offline Registered User Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBMM View Post
    Yes, you'll need to wrap the strings so that the lead off of the string is from the bottom of the tuning machine peg.

    Glad that you enjoy your new Silo3!

    Be sure that you join the Sterling By Music Man Facebook page. We have a lot of tech tips, new product news, and some nice SWAG giveaways as well
    Direct from the source! Glad to hear this from multiple people, maybe I'm not crazy.

    After 15 years of casual playing, I finally bothered to snoop around online to find out how to properly string a guitar. In addition to the graphite trick with the nut, I also try to wind at least 2 or 3 loops on the peg - this seems much more likely to stay in tune than just hooking it through the peg and going once around! Little things can make a big difference!

    Anyway, the Silo3 is an incredible value - I just want to make sure I'm setting it up properly to get the best performance i can. Thanks!
    Last edited by StormJH1; 12-05-2012 at 12:49 PM.

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    SBMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormJH1 View Post
    Anyway, the Silo3 is an incredible value - I just want to make sure I'm setting it up properly to get the best performance i can. Thanks!
    Where did you pick up your Silo3 at if I may ask? Nearly all of our Independent Retailers offer setup services, usually free with the purchase of the instrument as well.
    Brian Martin
    Vice President of Sales & Marketing, Product Specialist
    Praxis Musical
    Home of Sterling By Music Man

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    StormJH1 is offline Registered User Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBMM View Post
    Where did you pick up your Silo3 at if I may ask? Nearly all of our Independent Retailers offer setup services, usually free with the purchase of the instrument as well.
    Guitar Center. They had a floor model that had been played a bit, so I asked for a new one out of the box. I was still able to open it up and play it to make sure it had no dead frets or anything. Noticed this minor issue afterwards.

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    SBMM's Avatar
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    If your GC has a tech (which nearly all of them do now) I would take it back and have them set it up for you and get the issue resolved properly.
    Brian Martin
    Vice President of Sales & Marketing, Product Specialist
    Praxis Musical
    Home of Sterling By Music Man

  10. #10
    StormJH1 is offline Registered User Newbie
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    Wanted to do an update with some better pictures. First, I wanted to be very clear that I appreciate Brian's feedback and was not intending to be negative about the product in any way. While one might expect there to be some problems (literally) out of the box with a sub-$200 guitar, the Silo3 is surprisingly high quality, and a joy to play.

    However, some people indicated that it has an "angled headstock". It does not, at least not the way I interpret "angled" to mean:

    SUB Series Silo3 Issue with String Tension (downward) behind nut?-8341592061_f902ecfd44.jpg

    There is my Silo3 headstock. The tuning pegs are at the same angleas the fret board, except they are recessed. An angled headstock would look like the lower of the two below:

    SUB Series Silo3 Issue with String Tension (downward) behind nut?-guitar_headstock_angle.png

    What this means (and what I thought was the issue) is that 3rd, 4th, and 5th strings are at less of an angle b/c they are further from the nut. However, as I've read more about setting up guitars, etc., I noticed that my bridge pieces were set up almost as high as they could go, and the 5th one might have been a little crooked. There was some type of "rattling" sound coming from there, and it might have even been the cause of the sustain issues I thought were related to the pegs.

    Nonetheless, I will still try to do 3-5 loops on the peg and release from a lower point, just to make sure. Here's a picture of one such effort, though I could have done a better job of it (and will, next time).

    SUB Series Silo3 Issue with String Tension (downward) behind nut?-8341591551_fcb5656997.jpg

    Just wanted to clarify that what I thought I heard might actually have been a bridge issue, and not related to the headstock/pegs. The guitar still played great, even with the action probably set better than it needed to be!

    P.S. - The tuners on this thing are an absolute joy to use. They are incredibly smooth and stable. I'm in the process of doing a tuner upgrade on a Fender Squier, which is another guitar I like, but the simple truth is that the stock hardware on the SUB Series guitars is absolutely superior at this price point. In fact, the hardware and neck were the reason I picked this thing up when I wasn't even looking to buy another guitar!
    Last edited by StormJH1; 01-03-2013 at 08:05 AM.

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