Cab opinions : Two Thiele 1x12 vs Ported 2x12

[Dizzy]

I've just landed 2 EVM12L Black Labels and need to make a decision for the cab(s)

I was set on getting 2 Thiele cabs made, but the new-gen ported 2x12's (Port City, Genz Benz etc ) are very tempting.

I'd dearly like to get one of Port City's 2x12 cabs to give a try, but it ain't an option here in Oz.

I think I'm going to have to get them built by this wizard cab builder in the West Aussie country : M C Custom Cabinets
(Check out his gallery for the superb work)

The two 1x12's would be great for portability, and separation for stereo - but they are very directional. Maybe beam blocker might do the trick.

I reckon an oversize ported 2x12 like the Port City cab would sound huge, and give a fuller sound - with far less "beaming".

For some reason, the internal volume of the newer cabs is way more (per speaker) than the Thiele TL806 (the cab design using thiele parameters).

Obviously I lose all separation options for stereo with the 2x12.

The other option is ditching the Thiele idea and going for oversized 1x12's.

Opinions ??

 

[beej]

What about building two ported 1x12s? Then you won't have the directionality issues, you've got greater portability (you can only take 1 if you need it), etc. Or make them partially open back (maybe a removable baffle)?

Lots of good designs to work from. Haven't heard the Port City cab yet, but I have a ported Suhr 1x12 that's killer- it disperses really well too.

 

[MusicManJP6]

I had two thiele cabs with my Mark IV and they sounded great! I highly recommend two thieles. If you are feeling lazy you can just bring one thiele and leave the other at home and just move the head back and forth. The bass response was unreal!

 

[candid_x]

I'm a fan of separate 1x12 cabs. To my ears there's better punch and clarity, plus the options of using just one for whatever reason, and the portability factor.

I was using a ported Bogner Cube for awhile, and while it's not my thing, it really is a great option, if you want a closed back quad kind of sound from a 1x12 cab. Solid as a rock too.

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

I would say get 2 1x12" cabs purely from a lugging about point of view.

 

[Lou]

I have a pair of Mesa 1x12 theiles with EV speakers. The bass response is unreal. Plus you get better stereo spread. When I play gigs I will run one speaker on the other side of the stage to really spread the sound and it makes it easier for my bass player to hear. Plus they are easy on the back.

 

[Johnny Guitar]

What are thiele and ported cabs?

 

[Dizzy]

Thanks for the feedback fellas - your opinions agree with my gut feeling :
I'll go the two 1x12 option.
The question I'm asking now is Which Cab ?
I'm basically wanting to see if there's a better option to the Thiele.
Logic would say NO, as the Thiele TL806 was designed specifically for the EVM12L's, but they're a pretty old design now.

What about building two ported 1x12s? Then you won't have the directionality issues, you've got greater portability (you can only take 1 if you need it), etc. Or make them partially open back (maybe a removable baffle)?

Lots of good designs to work from. Haven't heard the Port City cab yet, but I have a ported Suhr 1x12 that's killer- it disperses really well too.

Thanks Beej,
The Thiele Cab IS actually ported :

, but it's cubic volume is quite small when compared to some of the newer oversize 1x12's.
From what I'm reading, these oversize cabs sound much 'bigger' - but the low end can be a little excessive / hard to handle.

HOWEVER, I just checked the Suhr site and saw the Badger 1x12 (you've got the badger, right ?) The cubic volume (LxWxH) of those cabs is actually quite close to the Thiele Cab. Do you have any pics of the Suhr Cab with the front removed so I can compare port size ? Do you know if there's any internal panels behind the speaker ?? (for sound direction).

What are thiele and ported cabs?

Johnny , Check out MESA BOOGIE's Thiele Cabinet for info. Mesa Boogie adopted the Thiele design (slightly modified to fit the amp heads on).
The TL806 Thiele design is based on calculations by Mr Thiele for the EVM12L speaker. (Mesa now uses Jensen C90's I think)
This is a ported cab. The "Ports" are the openings to allow air / sound movement.

 

[Paul Warren]

Dizzy, did you get my email? It wasn't super detailed, but I hope it helped in some way.

paul

 

[shredderbetter]

the genz benz actually have a much wider despersion than any "normal "cab they have a 15 degree offset in the enclosure it 's like a V mounted speaker~ so it's a bigger sweet spot in it's tonal broadcast the nice thing about 2 seperates is you can adjust the sweetspot but I 'm a big genz benz fan so for ease of portability and cost it's the way to go!Plus you can pimp it out! my 2x12 and 4x12 both sound huge for the size i own marshall 4x12 ans the 2 x12 is loader then those! and MUCH easier to lug!

 

[Dizzy]

Dizzy, did you get my email? It wasn't super detailed, but I hope it helped in some way.

paul

Yes, Thanks heaps Paul.
Sorry I haven't replied yet - I got it late yesterday at my office and the message is on that PC
It seems as thought it's going to be too hard to get the Port City Cabs to Oz.
Your rig does look awesome !

the genz benz actually have a much wider despersion than any "normal "cab they have a 15 degree offset in the enclosure it 's like a V mounted speaker~ so it's a bigger sweet spot in it's tonal broadcast the nice thing about 2 seperates is you can adjust the sweetspot but I 'm a big genz benz fan so for ease of portability and cost it's the way to go!Plus you can pimp it out! my 2x12 and 4x12 both sound huge for the size i own marshall 4x12 ans the 2 x12 is loader then those! and MUCH easier to lug!

Yeah, the GB's are a pretty radical cab - big capacity, big ports - big sound !
Definately an option if I change my mind and go 2x12.

 

[V_S]

BTW... Thieles aren't that hard to build. My Das built me one. The costs for the materials (besides the EVM 12L) were somewhat below 50 €. At the moment it's still bare wood, though .. no tolex or finish.

 

[Dizzy]

BTW... Thieles aren't that hard to build. My Das built me one. The costs for the materials (besides the EVM 12L) were somewhat below 50 €. At the moment it's still bare wood, though .. no tolex or finish.

Yep, they are easy to build.
I've got original EV Thiele TL806 Builders Plans, and I'm pretty handy with that stuff.
I've got all the tools incl. a nice mitre saw & router - but I just don't have the time these days. One of the biggest issues was getting 3/4" Void free marine grade ply - Baltic Birch even harder to find here in Australia - it's not available at every hardware shop like in Europe / US.

My original plan was to build the cabs to be ready for when the speakers arrived.....

The guy I've found uses Baltic Birch, and does all Dovetail joinery - plus tolexing.

 

[V_S]

OK I see...
the only problem i encountered is the width of the the three ports. It seems that on photos the three ports on the original TL806 plan have a different widths than the ones on the Mesa Boogie cab. I still have to find out for sure... Anybody here has a MEsa Boggie Thiele and can measure the widhts of the three ports?

 

[Dizzy]

OK I see...
the only problem i encountered is the width of the the three ports. It seems that on photos the three ports on the original TL806 plan have a different widths than the ones on the Mesa Boogie cab. I still have to find out for sure... Anybody here has a MEsa Boggie Thiele and can measure the widhts of the three ports?

I don't know why MESA would have changed it, and it looks pretty much the same to me.

If there is a difference, maybe it's because MESA never intended their cab to be used in step-down mode (with the middle port cover on).

Therefore the size of the middle port wouldn't matter ?

 

[fatoni]

thieles have always been appealing to me but then i found a used g-flex 212 for 300 which is around the price of 1 thiele. and it was owned by george lynch and he was getting rid of all his old gear from some tour to buy a house or something. kind of a steal. all that aside i love th sounds with my mark iv but ive never had any other cab (besides a mesa 112 widebody)

 

[candid_x]

I like the 112 Mesa wide body cab.

Anyone else try a Bogner Cube? I thought it was pretty phenomenal, even though I personally prefer open backs. But it really does give the impression of a driven loaded quad cab.

 

[V_S]

The plans I have are from EV not MB. Probably MB did some finetuning for guitar frequencies by changing the widths of the ports.

I don't know why MESA would have changed it, and it looks pretty much the same to me.

If there is a difference, maybe it's because MESA never intended their cab to be used in step-down mode (with the middle port cover on).

Therefore the size of the middle port wouldn't matter ?

 

[beej]

I just checked the Suhr site and saw the Badger 1x12 (you've got the badger, right ?) The cubic volume (LxWxH) of those cabs is actually quite close to the Thiele Cab. Do you have any pics of the Suhr Cab with the front removed so I can compare port size ? Do you know if there's any internal panels behind the speaker ?? (for sound direction).

Naw Dizz, unfortunately the grill doesn't come off the Badger cab. I'll see about taking it apart at some point so I can't take pics.

I know it's a departure from the CAA cabs (which I think were close to the Thiele design). It's definitely not beamy, one of the reasons I like it. As for dimensions, it's been tuned for a V30- designed to even out the midrange spike (so it's quite even sounding). So not sure that would help you with the EVs.

 

[Dizzy]

The plans I have are from EV not MB. Probably MB did some finetuning for guitar frequencies by changing the widths of the ports.

My plans are the EV ones too.

As the ports are effectively linked internally, I don't think varying the width beween the dividers would change anything ?


I think the only reason there's the sectioned ports on the original Thiele is because it was designed so the middle section could be blocked off - the Thiele plans call this "Step-Down" configuration - which dropped the cab to a lower frequency, and required EQ-ing to flatten the response.

With the port cover off, the Cab (with an EVM12L) gives a Flat response, but not as low a frequency.