Help! Morse Y2D out-of-phase tone

[MassimoP]

Hi All,

Last January I bought a used Morse Y2D as my jack-of-all-trades instrument, for situations where I could only bring a single guitar with me. Actually it became my main guitar and I have been playing her extensively for all 2017 . It is really a fantastic guitar: balanced instrument, comfortable neck, great pickups, etc.

Only thing I miss from her is a strat out-of-phase position tone, in particular for that clean Hendrix rhythmic parts . I tried to use the stock Y2D middle+bridge position for that, but the bridge humbucker is not splitted so the resulting sound is completely different.

In a magic world I would like to substitute the stock tone potentiometer with a push-pull tone potentiometer that, when engaged, splits both humbuckers to single coil. So when push-pull is not engaged I would have the stock pickups combinations, but when it is engaged I would have:

1. Splitted neck HB
2. Splitted neck HB + splitted bridge HB (tele-like tone)
3. Middle single-coil
4. middle single-coil + splitted bridge HB (Strat out-of phase tone)
5. splitted bridge HB

Is this something possible?

Otherwise, what would you suggest as the best way to simply have available a strat out-of-phase position tone?

Thank you,

Massimo

 

[TripHazard]

Paging Kevin. Come in Kevin...

 

[kestrou]

Paging Kevin. Come in Kevin...

I’m here, but the only re-wiring I do is to change the blade to 3-way and put in the “add bridge” toggle.

This is deeper than my expertise...

Kevin

 

[beej]

That's a pretty easy mod. However my two cents is that no matter what you do, there's no great way to get that stratty sound you get with two single coils in parallel. (You can get closer on the stock Morse with the split bridge + neck single, but even then, it's not the same thing.) I've tried other things as well- parallel wiring, filters (like the Bill Lawrence Q-filter), etc. But you can't really change the basic characteristics of the guitar.

I used to have my Morse wired up like this. I found I didn't really like the sound of the split neck pickup (whereas the split bridge sounds great). Actually the split bridge + neck HB sounds really good - I still use that on my Y2D regularly.

Anyhow- if you want to try it, you just need to ground the Black & White wires on the bridge and neck pickups when the push/pull is split. Easy enough to do- run a wire from the B&W of each pickup to the top lug of the DPDT push/pull (on opposite sides), and a connection to ground to the middle lugs. When you pull the switch, you'll ground one coil from each pickup, splitting them.

Another easy mod on the Morse is 50's wiring- change where the tone control connects to the volume pot, from the outside lug (where the pickup selector is) to the middle lug (where the output connection is). Allows you to keep more treble when you turn down the volume, and makes that neck pickup much more usable for stratty neck sounds.

 

[beej]

Btw I hate to sound like a nerd, but that stratty sound often identified as "out of phase" is really just two closely-spaced single coils, in-phase, in parallel.

Out of phase tends to give you more nasally, notchy sounds. (Think some of Brian May's solo tones.)

 

[TripHazard]

I’m here, but the only re-wiring I do is to change the blade to 3-way and put in the “add bridge” toggle.

This is deeper than my expertise...

Kevin

I was thinking you'd come in and sprinkle some "magic morse sauce" and just magic it into reality
Good job Beej is here

 

[MassimoP]

Thank you very much indeed!

So if I understood well, a good and easy mod I could try would just be to install a tone push-pull only to split the bridge HB pickup. So that with not-engaged pushpull I would have the stock tones, and with engaged push-pull I would have:

1. Neck HB same as stock sound
2. Neck HB + splitted bridge HB NEW SOUND
3. Middle single-coil same as stock sound
4. middle single-coil + splitted bridge HB NEW SOUND
5. splitted bridge HB NEW SOUND

If this is correct could you please suggest me the exact potentiometer to buy and the wiring mods? I can solder, but I have never soldered pickups . Thank you very much!

Good hint about "Neck HB + splitted bridge HB", I never thought about that!

Also, since we are talking about this lovely guitar, for which kind of tone you use the stock setting "single-soil+humbucker bridge"?

Thank you once again!

 

[beej]

That's right. Note that on the Y2D you can access the cavity without having to take off the strings, so you can technically try splitting both and, if you don't like that, unsolder the neck split, leaving just the bridge.

In terms of what pot to buy, I can't specifically recommend something. I just have a bunch lying around and use whatever is a 250k audio taper pot, with a push-pull. Now here's the tricky bit- on the Y2D, you probably need a longer shaft, to reach through the top of the guitar. If I were doing it, I would remove one of the exiting pots and measure it first, then order something with a similar spec.

However - there's an easier way to do this, if you're just doing the bridge split. Turn the existing tone pot into a "spin-a-split" pot (Google that). You can use it to gradually ground one coil of the pickup, so you don't need to make any cosmetic changes to the guitar. If you don't use the tone pot - which i don't - then this is a simple thing to do. (Full credit to Tommy Alderson for suggesting this to me.)

If you're going to go that route, you unsolder the existing connections to the tone pot (capacitor and wire to the volume pot), and instead solder a ground connection to one lug (where the wire to the volume pot was) and a wire to the B&W wires on the bridge pickup to the middle lug. Also, to account for the change in load from the missing tone pot, it's handy to run a 250k resistor across the outside lugs of the volume pot.

The split bridge & neck HB gives you the woodyness of the neck pickup with a tele twang from the bridge single. Similar to what you get with both pickups in parallel, but fuller sounding.

One other thought- before you do any of this, you can test it out by simply running a ground wire (alligator clip) from the B&W wires on either or both humbuckers to ground. You'll just need to expose the wires, then you can test it out easily to see if you like the results without making a big mess.

 

[MassimoP]

Thank you, will revert!