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Pops

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Now that Gibson is in trouble wouldn't it be about time for a new EBMM guitar.
Priced around the US - Stingray/ Cutlass price point.
Gibson scale length with a similar body shape to a LP to maybe take a bit of market share.
Before you say Armada - The Armada was too expensive and the body shape not to Gibson fan boy tastes
at least to the Gibson players I know.
What are your thoughts?
 

spychocyco

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Not really interested in an EBMM LP knockoff, but a short-scale Axis on the other hand ... Take my money now. :)
 

DrKev

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Gibson make more then enough guitars to keep their fanboys happy. And their fanboys will only buy Gibson, not what they see as a copy, no matter how well made.

As their existing fanbase ages (and dies off), and younger players don't care as much for tradional dinosaur brands as older players might, I would think EBMM are uniqely placed for success with new models, as we've seen them already do.

Gibson as a brand is going nowhere fast. Their chapter 11 bankruptcy is for restructuring rather than closure. They're selling off real estate, selling or closing other non-guitar products and brand names they own. The debtors basically control Gibson now. Whjo knows, maybe HJ will be ousted in time. It'll be interesting. Time will tell.

Bigger question for the industry is what will happen with Guitar Center this year?
 

GWDavis28

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Gibson make more then enough guitars to keep their fanboys happy. And their fanboys will only buy Gibson, not what they see as a copy, no matter how well made.

As their existing fanbase ages (and dies off), and younger players don't care as much for tradional dinosaur brands as older players might, I would think EBMM are uniqely placed for success with new models, as we've seen them already do.

Gibson as a brand is going nowhere fast. Their chapter 11 bankruptcy is for restructuring rather than closure. They're selling off real estate, selling or closing other non-guitar products and brand names they own. The debtors basically control Gibson now. Whjo knows, maybe HJ will be ousted in time. It'll be interesting. Time will tell.

Bigger question for the industry is what will happen with Guitar Center this year?

DrKev, very well put and I have to agree. I've been thinking and watching the GC thing. I think the first step with them will be store closures. From my point of view they have far too many stores too close together. I think they did better with less store. But hey that's just my thoughts.

Pops, honestly, nothing I'm really interested in, but thanx for starting this thread.

Glenn |B)
 

Big Poppa

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thanks for the thought but Gibson will still be a powerhouse. The biggest issues with Gibson were other acquisitions..the screw up with auto tune and others is small for them. When the new owners exit bankruptcy they will be at least debt manageable if not debt free.

Plus we cannot make any more guitars. It's very frustrating is a great way to have new stuff in the bullpen that you cannot find a spot for.
 

spychocyco

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Bigger question for the industry is what will happen with Guitar Center this year?

Agreed. I see a lot of people celebrating the end of GC, thinking it will bring back the local music store. I don't think so. The nearest GC to me is an hour and a half away, and we've still been whittled down to one music store that sells new gear and one that sells used gear. When I was in college in the early 90s, there was at least one music store in every small town around here and three in the larger town. You could find just about any brand you wanted within a 20- or 30-minute drive, and we even had an EBMM dealer (though I had no idea how much I loved them back then. :)). Now we're down to one dealer that carries the Fender brands and Ibanez. GCs didn't do that. Like so many other things, the internet changed that. No matter what happens with the physical GCs, I doubt we'll see GC.com, Musician's Friend or Music 123 go away. Nor, in fact do I want to. I remember the local store prices before the internet, and while those probably helped keep them in business, I don't want to go back to $8 or $9 for a set of Slinkys either.

On a side note, it does seem to me that the two GCs closest to me have changed their strategy into lower-end gear. The last time I was in the store nearest to me, I think they had two guitars on the wall over the $500 mark. The larger one a couple of hours away that I used to visit to play EBMMs has a few more, but not many, and never any EBMMs these days.
 

DrKev

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Agreed. I see a lot of people celebrating the end of GC, thinking it will bring back the local music store. I don't think so.

Never in a month of Sundays. Most small stores just cannot compete on price with internet sellers with a large warehouse who buy in bulk and none of the overhead of running a showroom (or over 250 showrooms, as is the case for GC). Customers are price promiscuous - they will go for cheapest and are not willing to pay extra just to support a local store, especially if the store is lacking in knowledgeable and pleasant staff. As I have said before here, small stores become a place that people try out instruments and then go homeand buy cheaper online. No small local store can survive that. This is the the world we live in now.

On a side note, it does seem to me that the two GCs closest to me have changed their strategy into lower-end gear. The last time I was in the store nearest to me, I think they had two guitars on the wall over the $500 mark. The larger one a couple of hours away that I used to visit to play EBMMs has a few more, but not many, and never any EBMMs these days.

Yes, they changed their strategy a year or two back. IIRC, top end instruments sell too slowly and they simply cannot afford to have expensive stock (that they've already paid for) sitting around all over the country to gid rid a few years later at a clearance sale. So only the top performing 100 or so stores get the best gear. The rest of the stores get what makes the most money for them, which is lower priced, bigger brand name gear.
 
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Astrofreq

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I'm in the camp that big store become big stores because they offer better prices. Wal-mart, Starbucks, McDonalds, Guitar Center etc were all ONE store at one point. I've worked in a small guitar store. The owner refused to take a smaller margin to make the sale and he could afford to do that. He also refused to sell online, so already he is still trying to function in the last century and vastly behind the competition.

I believe that people would prefer to buy locally, but when an item costs 15-20% more than online, why would you?
 

spychocyco

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I believe that people would prefer to buy locally, but when an item costs 15-20% more than online, why would you?

I'd always rather buy a guitar that I've had in my hands than something sight unseen (well, maybe except for EBMMs. There's nothing quite like being the first person to open that plastic and touch a new Axis. :)). My local store has pretty much fallen in line with internet pricing, and I buy from them when I can, but the selection is fairly limited. That's the bigger problem for me. There's just not that much gear in the local stores (or the GCs these days) that interests me.
 

DrKev

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I worked in a large music store (800-1200 instruments in stock at any one time), and they found it hard to keep up with online prices. Making 10 - 15% above cost price can't keep the doors open. Too many staff required for that size operation, and their rent in the hearty of Paris was astronomical. They could conceivably have survived, had they kept knowledgebale staff and good customer service. Sadly poor management ensured that didn't happen and loyal customers quickly fled.

And no matter what business you are in if you sell one thing to one person and they don't come back, you will eventually run out of people to sell to and will go bust.
 

spychocyco

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I'm pretty lucky with my store. I went in yesterday looking for a part for one of my Floyds, and they gave it to me, no charge. The guy just said be sure to come back and see me when you need something else. It was a small part, probably not more than a buck or two, but still, that's the kind of little thing that will bring people back. The guys that work there are all musicians themselves and know their business, and where I'm at, you're definitely not looking at Paris-sized overhead. It's a good store, but my tastes are just a little more exotic than what they handle. They're in pretty good shape because they're the only game in town with a surprisingly large community of musicians for a town our size, but like I said, they're one store when there used to be six or seven within a 30-ish mile radius.
 

tbonesullivan

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Local stores these days survive much more on loyalty and SERVICES. Guitar lessons, guitar repairs, etc etc will keep generating money long after the initial sale.

Also, one of the reasons that the big box stores can offer lower prices is because they strong arm the vendors into selling to them for less than they sell to competitors.
 

Astrofreq

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Also, one of the reasons that the big box stores can offer lower prices is because they strong arm the vendors into selling to them for less than they sell to competitors.

Hmm....I'm not sure that's necessarily true. The big companies like Gibson and Fender have such ridiculous requirements that small stores can't afford the annual buy-ins anymore. As far as bigger stores getting the gear for less, it's less likely because of 'strong arming' and more about the capital to purchase higher quantities. Any store can get the good deals if they have the money. Distributors like KMC and the like offer the same deals to anyone with the scrilla.
 
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