Help! Extremely bizarre behavior of my StingRay Special

[DrMatthewCross]

Hi,
maybe some of you guys remember my previous posts here about my SRS.
I've recently acquired a beautiful StingRay Special 4H in Dropped Copper. After a couple of weeks, I noticed that the signal was randomly going off and back on.

Symptoms:
What I heard when the signal was going off and back on is a peculiar "click".
That is the active preamp engaging when it detects an electrical signal going in (jack cable inserted with amplifier turned on).
If you unplug the jack cable and then plug it again, you hear that "click".
If you open the battery box and then close it, you hear the same exact "click".
That's because the preamp doesn't have power anymore and when it comes back, well... it does the usual "click".
So far so good, right? Bare with me.

Possible cause and solution:
I did some tests at home and unfortunately I couldn't understand how/why it was happening, so I've sent an email to EBMM and after talking with them I shipped my bass to my official local distributor, which also does repairs for EBMM.
They couldn't identify the problem and they said the bass worked perfectly and didn't show any problem. They talked to EBMM again and decided to replace the entire motherboard (with preamp, controls and all that stuff).
Well, one thing and another... I got my bass back after almost 3 months. But that's another story.
Unfortunately, I couldn't spend enough time with my bass when it came back home because I was traveling for work, but it seemed to work fine with the new replaced parts.
During this lockdown thing I finally got the chance to spend some quality time with it and guess what? It's happening again!
I must say this is not a rant thread, I just want to solve the problem asap. I'll contact EBMM via email and complain with them of course, but not here.

So... let's start excluding the replaced parts. I'm pretty sure it's not the preamp, the motherboard, or the controls. Everything has been replaced.
I think it's the output jack, so I started doing some tests with it. A couple of days ago I discovered some important things:
1) Touching/moving the jack cable doesn't trigger the defect. So the output jack port is not loose, maybe something is happening inside, definitely not outside.
2) If I play sitting, it definitely happens more often.
3) If I tilt the bass forward and rotate it around 90 degrees, I'm able to trigger the defect. The signal goes of (with approximately 1 second of delay) and then back on, and of course it "clicks". Imagine being on stage and tilt your body forward to reach a pedal in your pedalboard. That causes the problem. Why? I absolutely don't know.
4) The battery box isn't the culprit, imho. I tried to put a little spacer inside the battery clip to make the contact tighter in order to prevent a possible loose contact and nothing changed.
5) Angled jack cables seem to trigger the defect more often, but I'm not 100% sure.
5) If I use Proel cables, the problem disappears completely. With all my other jack cables, the problem is always there. Proel cables seem identical to my other cables but I guarantee you they somehow solve the problem. Why? I don't know.

I think it's the output jack, but what is happening? This is really strange and annoying. Never experienced something like that.
Please, help me solve this problem. I love that bass and I won't give up.

 

[tbonesullivan]

You are having intermittent contact either in the battery compartment, or due to an issue with the input jack.

The jack doesn't detect signal, it detects whether there is a cable plugged in. That's it. There are several ways to do this. If you use monster cables or other cables with oversized plugs, you can damage the inside of the jack.

 

[danny-79]

It sounds like a power problem to me.
How are your surroundings? What else is plugged in in the same room or on the same loop as the amplifier? Interference from another appliance is a possibility.
Regarding the bass it’s self I would be investigating the battery, (Duracell are the correct size for the Gotch boxes). Other brands are slightly different in size and renowned for causing problems.
The box itself (I’ve removed them completely on two of my basses in favour of a plate and snap).
Then the jack socket with all associated solder joints. Dry joint is a possibility.

 

[strummer]

This kind of problem is really the worst, but here is what i would do: First, as you say, the preamp is likely not the culprit as it has been exchenged. Second, since you have already put a space in the battery compartment, I guess we can probably rule that out too, at least for now.
So, my suggestion: Swap the input jack. You already know different cables get different results, so just put a new one in and I am pretty sure the problem will go away.
And if that does not solve the problem, replace the battery box.

 

[DrMatthewCross]

It sounds like a power problem to me.
How are your surroundings? What else is plugged in in the same room or on the same loop as the amplifier? Interference from another appliance is a possibility.
Regarding the bass it’s self I would be investigating the battery, (Duracell are the correct size for the Gotch boxes). Other brands are slightly different in size and renowned for causing problems.
The box itself (I’ve removed them completely on two of my basses in favour of a plate and snap).
Then the jack socket with all associated solder joints. Dry joint is a possibility.

I've never had problems with power at my house. Everything works perfectly. Anyway, I just tried to use my Phil Jones HA-2 heaphone amp which is battery powered. The problem is still there.
Batteries are Duracells, yes. I swapped them several times and didn't solve the problem.
Battery box seem ok to me. When I use those (bigger?) cables everything works, so I think it's the jack.
What you mean with "dry joint"?

This kind of problem is really the worst, but here is what i would do: First, as you say, the preamp is likely not the culprit as it has been exchenged. Second, since you have already put a space in the battery compartment, I guess we can probably rule that out too, at least for now.
So, my suggestion: Swap the input jack. You already know different cables get different results, so just put a new one in and I am pretty sure the problem will go away.
And if that does not solve the problem, replace the battery box.

I'm pretty sure too, but it's still annoying. I'm waiting a reply from EBMM customer care, let's see what they say. I'll ask for a new jack of course.

Thank you for the help.

 

[danny-79]

R.e Dry joint, a bad bit of soldier on any of the joints, solder points from battery, jack etc

Hope you get it sorted

 

[DrMatthewCross]

Oh, ok. It's clear now. That, or maybe a dirty contact. I don't know, I'll open it up asap and post some pictures. As soon as customer care replies I'm gonna ask for a new jack anyway.
The fact that gold plated jacks cause the problem is really strange.

 

[danny-79]

Oh, ok. It's clear now. That, or maybe a dirty contact. I don't know, I'll open it up asap and post some pictures. As soon as customer care replies I'm gonna ask for a new jack anyway.
The fact that gold plated jacks cause the problem is really strange.

Never heard that one before regarding gold plated jack plugs causing problems

 

[DrMatthewCross]

I did, but maybe it's just coincindence. But I tried 3 gold plated and 5 non gold plated and the problem showed up only with that three, which are all made by the same company.

 

[tbonesullivan]

How do the EBMM jacks detect that there is a plug inserted? Some use a stereo jack and see if there is continuity on the barrel. Others have the tip make contact with a little plastic piece, that presses contacts together.

What brand of cables are they? Do they use standard Neutrik connectors, or proprietary ones? There are a lot of companies whose answer to "better connection" is "oversized plug", which doesn't really work out that well in the long run.

 

[DrMatthewCross]

Other then pictures of the jack, I'll post some pictures of the cables I have. Maybe you'll be able to tell me if/what is wrong.
Thanks.

 

[danny-79]

Other then pictures of the jack, I'll post some pictures of the cables I have. Maybe you'll be able to tell me if/what is wrong.
Thanks.

I’ve got a couple of Monster, gold plated jack plugs and can’t say I’ve ever noticed any difference but not used them in a while in fact I’m not even to sure where they are. I came across a load of Neutric plugs and VD cable a while back, made up 6-7 leads and general just use them. Wireless is same set up apart from the cable

 

[DrMatthewCross]

I bought 3 "Vitamina C" cables a couple of years ago, they're made by Quik Lok and have gold plated plugs. I've always used those at home and at rehearsals and never had a problem with any them. They still work perfectly with my Jazz and Caprice so I didn't use anything else for a long time.
After this problem showed up on my SRS I tried some older cables I have at home and like I said, with all of them the problem didn't show up anymore.
As much as I can force myself to think that those cables are the "culprit", I know they are NOT. The defect is there, in the bass, they just can make it appear more easily. That's what I think.
I'll post some pics of the jack and the cables asap and we'll move to the next step, I hope.
Thank you for your help.

 

[DrMatthewCross]

Here's some pictures of both gold plated and non gold plated cables.

 

[DrMatthewCross]

Notice how the non plated cable seems longer.

 

[tbonesullivan]

Well, I hate to say it, but while you may think otherwise, your issue stems from the cables. The TIP of the cable touches a plastic piece, which in turn presses two electrical contacts together. This is what turns on the electronics of the bass.

There are two possibilities:

1) the longer ended cables you have bent the inside of the jack, so the shorter ended cables cannot press the contacts together firmly

2)the shorter ended cables are shorter than the standard Neutrik/Switchcraft cable ends, and are not pressing the contacts firmly together

The noise is the preamp momentarily cutting out.

So, yes that's your problem. It's a problem I have had as well with a 12 year old Carvin bass. I have two EBMM basses and 4 other Carvin basses, and I use standard ended cables with neutrik or switch craft end.

I NEVER use cables with molded ends that don't unscrew, regardless of the reputation of the manufacturer.

Why? I think you now know exactly why. I have a friend who had some high end cables with molded ends. One of the ends was shorter, and would pop out sometimes. There was no way to fix it, other than cutting the molded end off and putting a new one on.

Why do some makers use shorter jack ends? They feel it makes better contact because instead of the jack clip resting in the groove on the tip, it is more against the slope. However this leads to other problems when the jack end is used to do more than just transmit signal.

 

[strummer]

2)the shorter ended cables are shorter than the standard Neutrik/Switchcraft cable ends

Not this, as the gold one in the image is a Neutrik.

 

[DrMatthewCross]

Well, I hate to say it, but while you may think otherwise, your issue stems from the cables. The TIP of the cable touches a plastic piece, which in turn presses two electrical contacts together. This is what turns on the electronics of the bass.

There are two possibilities:

1) the longer ended cables you have bent the inside of the jack, so the shorter ended cables cannot press the contacts together firmly

2)the shorter ended cables are shorter than the standard Neutrik/Switchcraft cable ends, and are not pressing the contacts firmly together

The noise is the preamp momentarily cutting out.

So, yes that's your problem. It's a problem I have had as well with a 12 year old Carvin bass. I have two EBMM basses and 4 other Carvin basses, and I use standard ended cables with neutrik or switch craft end.

I NEVER use cables with molded ends that don't unscrew, regardless of the reputation of the manufacturer.

Why? I think you now know exactly why. I have a friend who had some high end cables with molded ends. One of the ends was shorter, and would pop out sometimes. There was no way to fix it, other than cutting the molded end off and putting a new one on.

Why do some makers use shorter jack ends? They feel it makes better contact because instead of the jack clip resting in the groove on the tip, it is more against the slope. However this leads to other problems when the jack end is used to do more than just transmit signal.

I hope that the problem is in the cable, it would be the better scenario with the easiest solution.
I'm not sure what you're saying, but there is no plastic parts touching anything. If you look at the last picture I posted, you can clearly see that the plastic part of the cable can't touch anything.
About point 1): I've NEVER used the non golded plated jacks (which are longer) with my SRS, so I didn't bend anything inside.
About point 2): maybe they're shorter than the standard, yes. Is there a way to verify this? Should I measure something?
If the problem is in the jack cables, please let me know how to recognize the cables I must avoid, because this is really confusing. I've just bought these cables in a music store without even thinking about this. This is the cables I'm using:
https://www.amazon.com/Quiklok-Vitamina-Instrument-Cable-Orange/dp/B00O4933JS
I can't understand the relation between molded ends and non standard measure of the jack. Can you please explain?
Again, I really hope that the problem is in the cables. I'll replace them and the problem will be easily solved. But at least I want to be 100% sure about which cables to buy or the problem can happen again in the future.

 

[Bert]

The white cable (signal) goes to the board. The two red cables made contact as you plug in the cable (from battery/ to switch in the jack/ to the board). The black ones are all ground.
There is (was) a tiny white arched plastic piece (guess this is what tbone means) inside the jack that switches the electronic on or off (arrow in my pic).

I wonder why all electronic has been swapped but the "easiest" part (input jack) not.
View attachment 36613

 

[DrMatthewCross]

The white cable (signal) goes to the board. The two red cables made contact as you plug in the cable (from battery/ to switch in the jack/ to the board). The black ones are all ground.
There is (was) a tiny white arched plastic piece (guess this is what tbone means) inside the jack that switches the electronic on or off (arrow in my pic).

I wonder why all electronic has been swapped but the "easiest" part (input jack) not.
View attachment 36613

Thanks for your help.
I guess that the reason why the jack hasn't been replaced is because it's placed in a different position?
In your picture, the output jack is mounted on the same metal plate of the controls and motherboard. In my bass, the jack is located in a different position (to the bottom) and I guess they just replaced the entire motherboard with controls. Honestly, I don't know why.