Is the Game Changer official dead?

**Wahoonc** · 02-12-2018, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by A.J.

The web app functions and the instruments have full capabilities right now.

In the event that the web app ceases to function the instruments still function independent of the web app (you are able to program any of the 20+ pickup settings to any position on the switches). With that said, we will do our best to continue to support the web app and all of the abilities of the game changer.

20+ pickup settings is nowhere near the millions advertised. I hope you do continue to support the web app. If it stops, you have lost at least one customer going forward. I love the GC, but that would be a deal breaker.

It’s fine to make business decisions and stop making a product, but it’s not okay to market a product that specifically depends on continued support and then stop supporting the product.

**beej** · 02-12-2018, 09:19 AM

Please stop making threats.

MM has NOT said they weren't supporting the GC. If and when that happens, you can certainly sound off. But everything IS currently supported, so this is all just negativity.

**Wahoonc** · 02-12-2018, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by beej

Please stop making threats.

MM has NOT said they weren't supporting the GC. If and when that happens, you can certainly sound off. But everything IS currently supported, so this is all just negativity.

Nothing I said was a threat. I'm allowed to express how I feel about my investment in the GC and the company's lack of response to our inquiries. If you go read my past posts, I have long been a supporter and advocate for the company and this guitar in particular. And I would have continued to be so, if someone would have responded. People have been asking this question for a long time and EBMM still hasn't said anything, except hints that we're going to have a non-supported GC in the near future. I didn't buy the guitar so I can assign the 20 z bank tones to the blade. This is a very real concern. Don't tell me what I can and can't say about that.

The only thing negative in this situation, which has really soured my opinion, is the circle-the-wagons approach (like yours above) and the silence about what we can expect. Some of us might like to make decisions about whether or not to keep the guitar. It's not "all just negativity." Do you have a GC? If not, why don't you stop making value judgments about when other people are allowed to be concerned. What would you do if a company essentially said, "look, it's okay. Your musical equipment will still be .00001 as functional as the equipment you paid for." Do you see that number? That's the math--assuming 2 million possible tones, which according to the company is a low estimate to use. Beej, your amp is going to be .00001 as functional, but don't be negative or express any concern because we haven't actually stated that it's going to happen yet--we just refuse to respond in any meaningful way to indicate otherwise. C'mon, dude. You're not talking children.

And if you want to continue down this road of being an apologist despite our concerns, trying to censor me, or ban me, delete my posts, do it. If that happens, I'll happily bid this forum and EBMM goodbye. I've bought eight EBMM guitars (seven new) in the past 3-4 years. I can spend that money elsewhere. But don't tell me that my concern about the $2500 guitar that seems destined to be limited to 20 random tones on the z bank instead of the infinitely programmable tones that I paid for is "all just negativity." The lack of company response, and your chastising my and others concern in particular, is rubbing me the wrong way. I do not appreciate it at all.

**Cenobyte** · 02-12-2018, 02:48 PM

I work in web based software development and I'm kind of thinking the best bet would be to create a final stand alone application (using the current web based app/plug-in as a base) that runs on both windows 7/10 and mac OSX up to High Sierra (forget about supporting ipads and iphones, they change every year). The logic being that the Win/Mac app will always work, via a virtual machine if needed, even 10 years from now.

I don't think it would cost too much money to make that happen as the application already exists and could be ported pretty easily. Users would then have a "final" physical app they can download and keep for when the browser version finally ceases to function due to browser updates etc. I understand there are costs involved, but it seems like the only logical solution for supporting the full range of this product and it's hardware moving forward. I'm honestly mostly concerned with the plugin potentially disappearing from chromes database over the next few years, otherwise if it sticks around you could likely use older browser emulation to get the app working.

I just picked a GC up from a sale last weekend, it was sitting in the store for about 5 years, I know because I've been eyeballing it the whole time... picked it up at a silly price tbh.

**Wahoonc** · 02-12-2018, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Cenobyte

I work in web based software development and I'm kind of thinking the best bet would be to create a final stand alone application (using the current web based app/plug-in as a base) that runs on both windows 7/10 and mac OSX up to High Sierra . I don't think it would cost too much money to make that happen as the application already exists and could be ported pretty easily. Users would then have a "final" physical app they can download and keep for when the browser version finally ceases to function due to browser updates etc. I understand there are costs involved, but it seems like the only logical solution for supporting the full range of this product and it's hardware moving forward.

I just picked one up from a sale, it was sitting in the store for about 5 years, I know because I've been eyeballing it the whole time... picked it up at a silly price tbh.

A stand alone is what I have been expecting for the last year or so. It does make sense. The guitar is no longer in production, so no need to blackbox or be so guarded about the software. If they're still worried about it, can link the download to the guitar's registration in the web app--while it's still functional. It would solve a lot of problems and go a long way to making GC owners feel better. I would actually prefer that--would have always preferred that, but the web app has always worked fine for me so I had no issues with it. Now, however, I'm starting to feel like I have a very expensive guitar that will cease to have functionality except the random presets in the z bank.

**DR5Guy** · 11-10-2018, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Cenobyte

I work in web based software development and I'm kind of thinking the best bet would be to create a final stand alone application (using the current web based app/plug-in as a base) that runs on both windows 7/10 and mac OSX up to High Sierra (forget about supporting ipads and iphones, they change every year). The logic being that the Win/Mac app will always work, via a virtual machine if needed, even 10 years from now.

I don't think it would cost too much money to make that happen as the application already exists and could be ported pretty easily. Users would then have a "final" physical app they can download and keep for when the browser version finally ceases to function due to browser updates etc. I understand there are costs involved, but it seems like the only logical solution for supporting the full range of this product and it's hardware moving forward. I'm honestly mostly concerned with the plugin potentially disappearing from chromes database over the next few years, otherwise if it sticks around you could likely use older browser emulation to get the app working.

I just picked a GC up from a sale last weekend, it was sitting in the store for about 5 years, I know because I've been eyeballing it the whole time... picked it up at a silly price tbh.

I doubt EBMM would put resources into creating a standalone app for a platform that is being phased out. A more realistic approach would be for EBMM to publish the GC API so open source folks could put together a community-supported solution.

**Cenobyte** · 12-18-2018, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by DR5Guy

I doubt EBMM would put resources into creating a standalone app for a platform that is being phased out. A more realistic approach would be for EBMM to publish the GC API so open source folks could put together a community-supported solution.

This would absolutely work too, it was mentioned elsewhere in this thread I believe though I could be wrong as I didn't read through the whole thing again... I mean this is obviously a dead topic at this point, I have no issues with my GC and have only really screwed with the sounds via the app a few times, don't see it being a major issue, but perhaps once the chrome plug-in dies down the road something like this could help keep the deeper functionality of the guitar alive. Time will tell!

**jones4tone** · 12-18-2018, 03:49 PM

I've been intending to capture the USB traffic between the Chrome plugin and my GC using WireShark, and see if I could begin to figure out how the messages are formatted, but haven't had the time to dig into it just yet. No doubt it would be easier with a published spec, but I think it could be possible to reverse engineer the format.

I'd traded a couple of messages with the engineering staff about ways to get an alternative out that could have a longer useful life than a browser plugin might, but I recognize that they have higher priorities than a discontinued product.

**Cenobyte** · 12-18-2018, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by jones4tone

I've been intending to capture the USB traffic between the Chrome plugin and my GC using WireShark, and see if I could begin to figure out how the messages are formatted, but haven't had the time to dig into it just yet. No doubt it would be easier with a published spec, but I think it could be possible to reverse engineer the format.

I'd traded a couple of messages with the engineering staff about ways to get an alternative out that could have a longer useful life than a browser plugin might, but I recognize that they have higher priorities than a discontinued product.wi

Nice, well hey, if you ever get around to it... you know where to post!

**BUC** · 12-27-2018, 03:46 PM

Maybe EBMM could license a 3rd party to make and sell the app? No risk or money to EBMM? Keeps the GC alive.

A lot of keyboard manufactures do this with their desktop editors. Soundtower makes a lot of them for Kurzweil, Dave Smith, Moog and many others. Now...soundtower kinda sucks BUT it removes the risk to the manufacturers who are already straining in a very competitive marketplace to make expensive instruments for a niche market. Plus, when the editor doesn't work the way we want we have to bitch at Soundtower and not the instrument manufacturer!

I for one do not understand what is wrong with the guitar marketplace. The tech in this guitar is amazing. My GC reflex is the most indispensable guitar in my collection. If I could wave a magic wand and make people see the truth!

**Wahoonc** · 01-28-2019, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by BUC

Maybe EBMM could license a 3rd party to make and sell the app? No risk or money to EBMM? Keeps the GC alive.

manufacturer!

You are correct that the appeal and selling point of the guitar is the amazing tech inside. If they didn't insist on keeping it web-based, there are workable options, in my opinion. Most prominently a stand-alone app or open source code, as others have mentioned. It seems like there are a couple of tech savvy players in here who are willing to help. I don't have an immediate need, but I also do not like that at any moment my GC could lose pretty much all of its flexibility and be frozen with two programmed banks. It would still be a great guitar, but it wouldn't be the guitar we bought because the entire reason we bought the guitar would no longer exist.

I guess it would still be a great novelty/collector's guitar for the future, but it would be so much better if it the functionality continued.