New Music Man Floyd Rose

[ajroy03]

Hello! I am hoping someone here can shed some light on the origin of the new Music Man Floyd Rose style bridge. Comparing the new bridge to others online, it seems very similar in shape and configuration to the Peavey Wolfgang Floyd which is made by Ping (Korea). I reached out to Music Man to ask them for some clarification on where their bridge is manufactured. They replied with "These Floyd Rose bridges are designed and built specifically for Music Man instruments, and are not built by Ping." However, I noticed on my guitar that the tremolo claw is stamped with the Ping logo!

Where are these things made??

Thanks,
AJ

 

[beej]

Interesting.

Well ... if they're not saying, I doubt anyone here would know.

 

[Iperfungus]

Hi there.
Which Music Man guitar model do you own?
Can you post/share some pictures, including the tremolo unit?

 

[Iperfungus]

In the meanwhile, I post pictures of my MM guitars: all the springs claws have the same logo.
Those are a 2007 Silho, a 2009 Axis SS and a 2019 Luke III.
Is that Ping logo? Ok, that's Ping hardware then.
And, unless Music Man buys from Ping just springs claws (and I assume a manufacturer would provide the whole assembly, not just claws), this would mean that 2 pivots Music Man tremolo could be made in Korea by Ping.
That would be interesting to know.
I've no concerns about guitars and their tremolo units: they are awesome instruments and the 2 pivots MM tremolo is the best non-locking tremolo unit I've ever used.
I also have no concerns about korean manufacturers: they can be second to none, as japanese ones, in producing high level hardware.
I own a Cort guitar with a made in Korea lo-TRS locking tremolo and that's one of the best Floyd Rose Lic. tremolos I've ever tried.
As far as I can see, Ping also manufactures hardware for Floyd Rose.
I do not expect low quality hardware on Music Man guitars and that's not indeed.
But...now I would ask: in this case, where's the difference between a MM 2 pivots tremolo and a Sterling 2 pivots tremolo, then?

Furthermore....
If this is the real situation, I've concerns about Music Man policies and transparency, also related to selling prices.
When I had to replace all the saddles in the Axis, because original ones were too worned out, I bought a complete set of original MM saddles that I paid 60 euros...If now it turns out that's made in Korea hardware and that the real cost is 20 euro for the whole set, I would be a little bit disappointed.

That's not fair and that's not a good way to build trusted relationships with your customers.
If you do not answer to some questions, I start thinking there's something you do not want to tell me.
It would be nice if someone, who exactly knows how it works and how it worked so far, could clarify the situation.

 

[Iperfungus]

This is a Ping-made Floyd Rose...

 

[DrKev]

Hold yer horses there lads.

That's the PW logo of Ping Well Industries Co., Inc. They manufacture in Taiwan (not Korea) and have been supplying parts for guitar companies for a long time (since 1951). Looking at import declaration data, they appear to be still shipping but since 2018 only Martin, Taylor and L'Arrivee are listed guitar-related customers (EBMM are not listed though could perhaps be supplied through somebody else). The Ping Well website is no longer active and the trademark for that logo has expired. There is a current Ping Hardware company (active website but not the same logo) that makes bridges and tuners but their website lists no Floyd Rose style bridges at all. If there is any relationship between Ping Hardware and Ping Well or Music Man I do not know. We also know that Schaller in Germany are current makers of many Floyd Rose bridges and there is an existing relationship there (tuners).

Also note that between at least 2007 to 2019 (re: Iperfungus's guitars) those claws can go on instruments with bridges that Music Man manufacture themselves. And remember that pre-2011 even the Floyd rose trems were made by Gotoh, i.e. no MM bridges pre-2011 were made by any company called Ping anything. There is no reason to expect the presence of a logo on the claws indicates the manufacturer of the Floyd Rose bridges, at all.

It's unfair to jump to possibly/probably wrong conclusions about Music Man and transparency. OK?

 

[morsecode]

Sounds like a lot of pot stirring to me.

 

[ajroy03]

Yeah please don't misconstrue my post, I am not bashing on Music Man. They're my favorite guitars and I love how they play. As a player and owner, I am interested in knowing what kind of components are on my instrument and I was surprised that Music Man was not willing to tell me who the manufacturer was or where the bridge is made - I doubt any other company would withhold that information? PW/Ping had made bridges under the Floyd Rose name as you have above, but they also made several different styles. The Ping tremolo that I am comparing to is the Peavey branded bridge found on Peavey EVH Wolfgang guitars. They appear very similar to the Music Man tremolo. My guitar is a Cutlass w/ Floyd, I can post pictures but they won't be as high quality as Music Man's own promotional images.

 

[beej]

I don't find that so surprising. Like any other manufacturer, EB & MM source parts from all kinds of third-party vendors for their products. I think those relationships change periodically with the needs of the business, and this is likely proprietary information.

 

[PeteDuBaldo]

I don't find that so surprising. Like any other manufacturer, EB & MM source parts from all kinds of third-party vendors for their products. I think those relationships change periodically with the needs of the business, and this is likely proprietary information.

Right, a Ping-supplied claw does not mean the trem unit itself is Ping. Of course, it's a possibility, but we do know that many of the Floyd units in the past were Gotoh-made.

 

[Rbg]

I bet if I call BMW they are not gonna tell me who made that particular part for them. That why we have forums

 

[Iperfungus]

Ok guys, let's calm down...we're still friends!!
Maybe I jumped to some conclusions too quickly, ok.
But...just to explain you why...

When I've read the first message, I said to myself "that looks strange a lot".
I didn't see any new MM Floyd unit yet, but I've seen many MM guitars with the Gotoh unit and some friends o' mine own Axis and Silho guitars with the Gotoh Floyd, so I asked them to have a look and the claws on those guitars have no logo...something that doesn't look strange, since we assume that's all Gotoh hardware.
Then I had a look to my guitars and I found the Ping logo on the claws and this made me wonder if the MM 2 pivots bridge is made by Music Man itself or by other manufacturer.

As I wrote, there's nothing bad, generally speaking, to have some parts manufactured by other suppliers and today we can find high quality hardware made in Japan, made in Korea or made in China, if materials and quality controls are high level as well.
What looks a little strange to me is that MM manufactures its own tremolo units, 2 pivots or Floyd, and not spring claws...but ok, this means nothing.
They can have tons of those claws stored and use them for the next 1 million years.
Nothing wrong here, of course.
As Pete Du Baldo said, we're just talking about possibilities.
In my personal experience, it happened with some other expensive made in USA guitars I own or owned, built by other famous brands, to have the suspect that some parts were not exactly made in USA.
None will ever know that for sure, of course....but reading here and there about other people's experiences with some issues, one can figure out how some things could go.
This is not the case of my Music Man guitars, since I love them all a lot and I had no issues at all with them.
I still think the 2 pivots MM tremolo is the best I've ever tried and this wouldn't change if it were made by someone else: it works like butter!
I didn't change my mind about the high quality of Music Man instruments and I still think that they're among the best on the market.
But....if a customer asks you a legitimate question about an instrument you made, why you cannot give him a precise answer?
This would erase any suspicion that you are not telling him the truth and will help other people as well to know how things are, avoiding that someone could have doubts about your transparency.

When we buy meat, we want to know where the cow is born, lived and died and that's clearly written on labels.
We live in a globalized reality and we're old enough to know that, generally speaking, cutting production costs will lead you to more revenues.
I'm not telling that this is Music Man's policy, don't get me wrong...
I'm just saying that, if any producer would have more transparency about their supply chains, customers would be correctly informed before buying and no misunderstanding can take place.

Thanks DrKev for sharing some information, as always!

 

[GoKart Mozart]

I've bought a few guitars with the Floyd Rose FR1000 trem (made in Korea) in the past few years since that model seems pretty popular with a lot of manufacturers these days; the new MM Floyd on my L4 30th feels like a MUCH better quality unit. The fine tuners feel like garbage on the FR1000 compared to the MM trem.

I like how the new MM trem has the "ramped" front saddle half like the old Gotohs and the Peavey Pings vs. the old school Floyd Rose/FR1000/Schaller style. Just looks a little nicer, IMO.



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[Iperfungus]

I bet if I call BMW they are not gonna tell me who made that particular part for them. That why we have forums

I'm sure, unless you're a race car driver, that your attitude with your guitars is different from your attitude with your car.

 

[beej]

Ok, this thread seems to have taken a strange turn.

Iperfungus, I'm not sure if you meant to come across as upset or not. When you said, "In my personal experience, it happened with some other expensive made in USA guitars I own or owned, built by other famous brands, to have the suspect that some parts were not exactly made in USA."

There's a complex supply chain at work here - everything from wood (Isn't Okume from Africa?), glue/adhesives, frets, pots, capacitors, etc. that is sourced from all kinds of vendors. I'd be willing to be there's no way to get all of this 100% made in the USA. The same thing would apply to every other instrument manufacturer.

Some of this information is proprietary. They may not want to tell people what vendor they're using to make a particular part (bridge, pot, etc.) They may have a confidentiality agreement with a vendor. It may be a competitive issue- they don't want other vendors to know. Could be lots of reasons.

"I'm sure, unless you're a race car driver, that your attitude with your guitars is different from your attitude with your car"

I bet even if you're a race car driver, BMW isn't going to tell you where all of their parts are made

Anyhow ... nothing stops anyone from asking. If you want to know where a part is made you'd have to ask MM directly. If they don't tell you, you can also ask them why. The rest of us are just guessing here.

 

[Iperfungus]

Ok, this thread seems to have taken a strange turn.

Iperfungus, I'm not sure if you meant to come across as upset or not.

No at all!
That was just an explanation of my previous posts and of the reasons why I had some doubts and asked some questions.
I've got some answers here and that's ok.
No strange turns beej and no suspects about Music Man's conduct, just to be clear.
When I mentioned other guitars, I was talking about other companies.
And the one about being a race car driver, it was just a joke!
The main question of this thread came from its author, so now it's up to him if ask more to MM or not.
About me, I'm happy with my MM guitars, as I said since I subscribed.

 

[ajroy03]

Just to close the loop for those interested, I did reach out to Music Man again as a follow up to ask if they could at least tell me where (what country) the bridge is manufactured if not the manufacturer. They declined to respond. I guess it will remain a mystery, odd though that may be.