Active Pickup Upgrade

[zabba]

Considering upgrading to a set of EMG active pickups
These have a pre amp and other circuitry built into the pickuos.
There are many advantages to doing this , it comes down to a clearer, steady sound, that will make a cheap guitar sound full and strong.
Imagine the effect on a good guitar
Anyone have any experience with any of the Brands of Active Pkups placed in an EB

Since I run A Silhourtte HSH it means

• changing out 5 pkups,
• barrery,
• a stereo jack
• 25K ohm pots

Basically changing out the entire electronics

OR add a PC board to the guitar , these often are hard to fit inside and are placed outside the guitar, not too good

 

[kbaim]

Don't know if this answers your question, but after getting my Luke (with EMG's), I was a convert. They sound better (clean) to my ears through my line6 amps than all the other pickups EB puts in their guitars.

So I got rid of my stock strat ('76) pickups and replaced them with EMG's (the dg20's). In addition to getting infinitely better sounding, quieter pickups, I gained 2 positions since I had a 3way and now have a 5way.

Don't forget to unplug your guitar when not playing or batteries go pretty quick.
KEITH

 

[Jimi D]

I think what you might want to consider is buying another pickguard for your Silhouette and mounting the EMGs on that - then you can just swap out the old guard and its electrics for the new one... EMGs are nice pickups if that's the sound you're after, but I personally feel that they are more generic sounding; ie: more likely to sound the same no matter what guitar you put them in... that doesn't mean I don't think they sound good, just that you're not going to hear much of a difference between a KH20 set in an Alder Silhouette or in a Mahogany ESP KH1 (or whatever)... the kind of clarity you get from EMGs and other active pups is perfect for processing and long effects chains, though... my 2¢

 

[nobozos]

I can't speak to EMG's in an Ernie Ball, but I can relate a story that may be helpful.
A guy I know that works at my local music store owns an early 80's San Dimas Jackson Soloist. It has a maple neck and maple body wings with a Floyd Rose bridge. He tried a couple different Dimarzio pickups in it, and had no luck finding a decent tone. This is not suprising since I have found that Dimarzio pickups tend to be very sensitive to what kind of guitar they are put in. They really need the right combination of wood, type of bridge, type of neck joint, and type of pickup mounting to sound good.
Next, he tried a Seymour Duncan JB. The guitar still didn't sound right. It sounded really thin, with no "ass" to it. This was a bit suprising since Seymour Duncans tend to be a little more stable than the Dimarzios.
At this point, he was really frustrated with it, and was actually considering getting rid of the guitar since he never played it. As a last ditch effort, he put in an EMG 85 in the bridge position. The difference was dramatic and immediate. The guitar had all of the tone qualities that had been lacking with all the other pickups he had tried. The difference was so dramatic that the guitar came out of the case last weekend for a gig, and is now probably going to be his main gig guitar. Keep in mind that this guy plays through a Mesa Dual Rec, and likes the heavier compressed sound.

Now, I think that it all really depends on your ear, and what you personally like. In this case, an otherwise great guitar had terrible tone characteristics due to either the type of wood, or construction. Jimi D is correct that an EMG pickup is going to sound pretty much the same no matter what guitar you put it in, and that is the thing that saved the old San Dimas Jackson.

My recommendation would be, try some other passive pickups before you spend a **** pile of money on a whole set of EMGs. The advantage to this would be that you can replace one pickup at a time, starting with the one you use the most. If you don't like the way it sounds in the bridge, try it in the neck, you may like it there. There are also things you can do with passive pickups that you cannot do with EMGs. You can't easily make the EMGs "feedback".
You may not get the tone out of the passives you want on the first try, but you may also find a great tone that you wouldn't have with the EMGs.
Like I said earlier, Dimarzios are very tempramental about the guitar they are installed in, so I believe that Seymour Duncans are a less risky pickup to experiment with. The JB model is probably the most forgiving, all purpose high output humbucker that you can buy. If your guitar can't make a Seymour Duncan JB sound good, go get the EMGs.

 

[kbaim]

One more thing...

My strat does sound much more like my luke now that it has emg's in it also and both are alder with maple necks and rosewood fretboards, but the dg20's in the strat have 2 tone shaping controls that give it a huge variety of sound possibilities.

The middle knob now adds/subtracts both highs and lows, and the knob closer to the edge of the guitar adds/subtracts mids.

I tend to keep both around 2-3 and increase one or the other depending on needs. The lower tone knob (mids) I increase when I want to get a fat (humbucker type) lead tone.

Fingerpicking I increase the other (highs and lows) a bit.

FWIW The luke is the way easier guitar to play. You can sometimes find them used for like 600-800 bucks.

KEITH

 

[NorM]

In 84 I played every guitar in Nashville with a tremolo until I found a squire with a Floyd copy that sounded just like what Randy Rhodes was doing. When I got home and plugged into a big old Fender tube amp there was trouble. The noise was unbearable. I got the EMG's for Christmas that year and I was hooked. Then a music store in Hotlanta sold me a set of EMG's 89 (split coil tapped) and an 85 (next to the hottest humbucker). I bought them before I had a guitar to put them in. So when I got my first silhouette (poplar and rosewood) in they went. At that time MM listed in their brochure that they may change the pups. The PAF pros were not in that guitar. Next I found the 93 teal silo (ash and maple) on eBay with the exact same set of EMG's already installed. The different woods do make a difference. The poplar silo is the best sounding clean guitar while the ash rocks like none other. I find the PAF Pros to really be dynamic almost to the point of feeling airy (not a bad thing). Also, like they claim, they really cut through the effects. I can really hear the attack of the string. The EMG's feel and sound more like a closed loop. As if they are a part of the string. The less powerful magnetic field of the EMG allows the string to vibrate with less dampening force. This allows for more sustain and a less dynamic fade away. Perhaps that is why some have referred to the sound of EMG's being sterile. I think a good synonym for sterile would be perfect. It is way tough to get the EMG's to feedback. But when you do find a resonant frequency for the pup at a loud driving tone you can control the feedback to the point that would make Jimi (D and Hendrix) drool.

 

[kbaim]

Hey norm,

I was and will always be a big Randy Rhoads fan. I took lessons from him for about a year back in '79.

He had a great sound in lessons by using a crappy fender practice amp, an MXR distortion plus and his white Les Paul. (I was using the strat mentioned earlier in this thread with the original pickups).

I've been tempted to go back to the music school he taught at and his mom still owns (at least she did about a year ago), just to see her, say hi, and play her a few of the songs I've composed.

Not proud of this, but I was in that area last summer and poked my head in to see if Ms Rhoads was still there (I had heard she was from some guy at SAM ASH who sold me a les paul studio).

There she was teaching a student piano. 25 years later! But I couldn't go in (way too emotional). So I ended up sitting on the
curb crying at all the memories. He was so nice

I live about 70 miles from there now and hope to play her something someday.

KEITH

 

[zabba]

Perfect , just what I wanted to know.
This is the only place to find out how the EMG pups really work on the EB.

I have a telecaster with EMGs, sounds awesome, so I figured the Silo would be a terror.

Typically, more questions are created.

Unfortunately EMG does not show a prewired setup for a
an H-S-H pup configuration, I imagine they would build one if requested, hey?
I have the equipment to put it together if need be.


The silo is fast ,and has a fair sound, what I liked most was the smoothness in playing, I can go for many hours, my tele would drag me down after a couple of hours.

The cost is not a problem, as long as it is not a waste of money, and from what I read here - EMG is hot.
I will test it out by putting the Tele pups in the Silo for a test run

I keep thinking the dual humbuckers be a bit of overkill,
the luke runs on a single pole in middle and neck positions.
There is a big difference in sound when I switch from neck to bridge pups, I don't want to lose that variety..

I understand about the sterile sound of the EMG, it is clean, and not a problem. a Digiteck FX box I have, will compensate.

My confusion lies in the type of EMGs which I 'll have to investigate more the sound capability of only a coule EMG models

My other unknown is , I never even thought about what type of wood The Silo has. The wood does affect the sound. How do I determine what wood is in this guitar.
It was purchased new April 2002 .

It has been back to the factory once for a nut replacement, it wore out in 4 months and that should not have been
It must have been cut bad .

Thanks for all the comments, any additional remarks will be appreciated, Write as much, as you wish, I want to gather as much actual knowledge about this as ypu are willing to impart. since it seems that I am looking at a $300-$500 upgrade.

 

[NorM]

I found EMG wiring diagrams at http://www.guitarnucleus.com/schems.html
They use to be on EMG's sight but I couldn't find them any more. The two silos I have with EMG's are (bridge to neck) 85, SA, 89. The 89 is coil split with the aid of a push pull volume knob. Then I added another toggle to activate the bridge pup no matter what. This gives me the options I need. I'm sorry I don't have these diagrams for you. I did such a good job of wiring them I have never had to go back in. Pictures and discriptions of these guitars can be found here

 

[nobozos]

EMG 85 is a pretty good all around humbucker with great tone. The 81 is very hot and a little trebley(don't know if that is a word)

 

[Jimi D]

My other unknown is , I never even thought about what type of wood The Silo has. The wood does affect the sound. How do I determine what wood is in this guitar.
It was purchased new April 2002 .

A 2002 Silhouette would have an Alder body...

 

[zabba]

A 2002 Silhouette would have an Alder body...

That's what I cane up with , also
Alder
Alder
Alder
Story of my life, that explains why it sounds a lot like my Strat
versitile but leans towards a higher pitch, A little cold sounding lacking a bit on fullness, and warmth
The Alder seems to resonate in less frequencies than other woods ,. Whether it is harder than ash and poplar, don't have the foggiest idea.
Anyone know ,
generally that is , any individual piece of wood might vary from the norm.

I gotta put some fire into this EB silo or else get rid of it.
I don't need another Strat,
still have 3 of them floating around here. now
Only one of them is worth a bucket of frioles.

I have a telecaster that has super good tonal qualities, but the neck is wide and I can't get down past the 15 fret easily.
It is not as playable as the EB, Silo .
It is a good guitar in the midrange leads and with chords , but the frets would have to be totally reworked to get any speed out of it.

Well it is down to the local guitar shoppe, to see what they have in stock as far as EMG and other high end pups. just to see, not to purchase yet, unless they offer me a killer deal

Some opinions on the different woods if anyone is willing to enter into that subject,
Have read a few things mostly impressions people have on the sound qualities of various woods, which is a valid observation,

I have seen one scientific coorelation of wood types and sounds , in the acoustics and how the wood grain, hardness , and thickness can be modified , so that the piece of wood , usually the front or back of a hollow body can be made to resonate in the proper frequency range and in a balanced fahion, improving output and sound quality..
the manufacturers of acoustic guitars must be doing these types of studies.

They placed sand on the wood , then subjected it to variable frequencies , when the sand started to vibrate , it was possible to see what areas were resonating,, by wood selection and sanding , they altered the sound properties of the wood

How that relates to a solid body with grooves routered in it is anyones guess. Who knows we may discover something and will start carving up guitar bodies with a swiss army knife.

I can see it now, musicans lined up,
waiting for me to scrape out the guts, of their favorite axe.

<chortle >
no one else has done it , and the usefullness is obvious, we could easily become sought after specialists with this.

Ooopppps my soapbox broke again , gotta drop some weight.

--------------------------------------------
"Hey kid let me fix your guitar, I' m just going to whittle it down with my mexican switch blade, hey come back, I'll make it sound better,
dang chickenbutt.

---------------------------------------------------------
Hey mister is that your guitar,
how does it pound,
Say, that is not bad,
but, it needs a hole drilled through it , right about here

<doiiink><zzzzzzzZZZzzzzZZzzz>
ah much mo' betta'
muahhahahaha
sure I have done this three trimes before ,
, so no worries, mate.

 

[zabba]

The two silos I have with EMG's are (bridge to neck) 85, SA, 89. The 89 is coil split with the aid of a push pull volume knob. Then I added another toggle to activate the bridge pup no matter what. Pictures and discriptions of these guitars can be found ..here [/URL] [/B]

You seem to be extremely pleased with the final result
That's is what I wanted, to hear.
I figured this is the best way to get this axe moving, and make it stand out from the rest.
The 85 is the way to go on the humbucker
The SA, I need to look up but I guess it is not an active pup
Then it looks like I need to consider whether to put an another 85 in the neck or possibly a 81 or 89

If you have any more commemts , fire away it is all good to know I enjoy reading everything you people have to say, it is an education in a subject that I want to know more and more about.
I am just starting to begin to understand the things you all have known for quite a while, It is all new and interesting ,

I really appreciate all the information, before I posted a few questions , I was lost , had no basis to make any type of decision on what to do.
Now I am feeling like I am getting somewhere and before long can make a smart, informed choice , instead of shooting blanks in the dark, then crossing my fingers

 

[NorM]

The SA is also an active pup. You don't want to mix active and passive pups on a guitar. Unless you want to.... Nevermind. You just don't want to. The 81 is hotter than the 85 so are you sure you want that in the neck? Just asking.

 

[zabba]

The SA is also an active pup. You don't want to mix active and passive pups on a guitar. Unless you want to.... Nevermind. You just don't want to. The 81 is hotter than the 85 so are you sure you want that in the neck? Just asking.

I was thinking the SA was a Select EMG That's why I mentioned passive , I agree just stay with the actives to avoid any problems.

I was leaning towards an 85 at the neck and the 81 at the bridge which would give me the mellow sound on mother from the neck and the rad sound from the bridge, . But I don't play much heavy metal , and won't need an 81., But I don;t know what to expect from these pups I can read about them , but intil I try it I won't know
The 89 I don't understand what effect it will have on the sound But if you like it, I am sure it will be slick
I like the swutch iidea to get both hummers going
The SA in the middle looks like the best Shot

B M N
H S H
85 SA 89

Since This is my first modification of of EB Silo and an EMG pup I can't believe my good fortune to run across you.

THe other day I took a look at your guitars
I figured you had Two of them ,
Fell outta my chair when six of them showed up
I guess you must have a bit of expeience in this area
I liked the actuve pups from the get go ,
I still marvel that I came right here , to find out what was up

So
I have checked out the pups from EMG really closely, and as far as I am concerned I have the advice of the top EB - EMG , heavy hitter
I am satisfied that it will sound excellent ,

If you have any other ideas let me know
I am starting to shop around and check prices befoe I buy

There is a question about a switch that will give me both sets of humbuckers at rhe same time ,, just details to work out .
I am jazzed because I know this guitar is going turn out very hot in the end , .,

 

[NorM]

If you want me to I will email you a mp3 of a silo with emg's. The file is 3.7MB so I thought I would ask first. Any body else who wants it just let me know.

 

[zabba]

If you want me to I will email you a mp3 of a silo with emg's. The file is 3.7MB so I thought I would ask first. Any body else who wants it just let me know.

That would be excellent
However I am not sure if there is a size limit on my mail box , there is pleny of room, so send it . if it bounces then it does .
or
Can you post it to a newsgroup [alt.binaries.guitar.tab]?
or
I can send you the addresss and password to the geocities file manager you can post it to my web address ,

 

[zabba]

Took the plunge
Purchased a Zak Wylde set of EMG pups
This included the neck (85) and bridge (81)
pups, and all the pots, jacks, wires needed- except the 5 position switch.

Removed the Dean Markley stock pups, pots, jack and wires.

Woo Hoo
transformed that Silo into an awesome sound machine.
Very impressive ,
I am totally pleased with the results
In fact it goes way beyond being satisfied , I am ecstatic, a whole new world has opened up .
The frickin axe screams.

It is fortutious that in this forum we have -- Norm ---, "the man" on pickups and EB Silos. He has got to be one of the top dogs in the world, concerning the subject.
If you doubt me, check out his six tricked out Silos.

I still need to pick up a EMG SA pup for the middle position,

Imagine the effect of still another upgrade , I can not put the guitar down now..

For the concerns that the EMGs would make the guitar sound sterile, It simply did not happen,
The pups gave it meat, deep strong sound, full , clean sound , nothing like a stock strat

Just press on the string and you get
"hammer on"
The sustain can go on and on and on and on .......
pull offs, slides , all effortless .

Toss the picks away, they just slow you down.

A powerful set of pups and the Silo proves what a precision machine it really is.

Thanks again Norm "you da man"

 

[NorM]

I am thrilled you are thrilled. The Zak set does make things easy.

 

[zabba]

When I wired in the SA pup It seems I lost the option of running the neck and bridge pup simultaneouslym
That is if I wire it the way they suggest,

However I am certain , I can insert a jumper wire on the 5 way switch that will hook me up with all three pups at the same time ,

Unfortunately I don't thimk it will allow me to iso;ate any two of the three pups after the jumper is added,

However I can run the neck and bridge pups tigether by wiring the bridge pup as though it were the middle SA pup that way I can select the neck and bridge with the standard 5 position switch,

I begin to understand, why you (Norm) wired in an additional switch that turns on the bridge pup, no matter what ,

It apparently does no harm to run all three at once , No additional battery is needed , but it will shorten the battery life,

IWondering if you have the diagrams for an additional switchm, If they are not readily at hand,, don't worry about itm it won't be too much trouble for me to figure it out, once I think about it,
Getting low on space under the pick guard ,
I doubt that I will need to do any grinding , and can still squeeze a couple more control pots in it

The battery fit in nicely

the wiring was not a problem to follow,
A good soldering iron is needed to solder the grounds onto the volume pot

The active pups is the way to go without a doubt.

An upgrade to a passive pup will improve the sound quality without a doubt, but for a noticable improvement that blows your mind , go active it ccst $220 to replace the three pups, two humbuckers and a single pole , all the wiring under the pickguard was replaced and came with the EMG pups plus a bunch of extra pots . Except the 5 position switch is still the origrnal .

I know you can get EMG pups cheaper at Ebay but one needs to be careful about getting the right model number of the pups , otherwise I am sure they will sell yiu some of EMG's passive models.

Happy with the upgrade , you bet I am no complaints so far , the sound quality is big time superior to the stock De Marzio

The light activated pups might be better than EMG active, I don't know and the the piezo is an interesting unit but I am not familiar with it ,

I found the resonating frequencey if my EB silo seems to be a " D ".

At least it will maintain that note indefinately iwhen the volume is set to about medium