Bi-Amping Question

[shamus63]

I'm nearly finished putting together my new rig...which is actually two rigs.

I'm going to be running 2 1x15's from my Ampeg B2R for warmth and general bottom-end, while my Gallien-Krueger will be run through 2 2x10's to cut through the mix; no 4x10 set-up here...trying to keep all of my cabs as light as possible (plus I can reconfig as needed for smaller gigs).

My question here is can I bi-amp the two heads by running the GK tuner output to the Ampeg instrument input w/o damaging the Ampeg?

If I remember correctly, the tuner output is an instrument-level output, with no volume control (other than from my bass).

Any thoughts/experience in regards?

Thanks!

 

[adouglas]

I thought bi-amping by definition involves an active crossover, so that the two amps aren't doing the same thing.

Sounds like your scheme would work, though.

You could also get an A/B/Y switch and run the two outputs to your two amps. I've got a Boss LS-2 and it's one heck of a handy little pedal. Right now I'm using it to run a mix of wet and dry signals.

 

[skabassist13]

I would imagine it would work. Hook a voltometer on the end of the cable and test it to see. If you want to go the A/B/Y switch way, Morely makes an incredibly simple one that is pretty cheap to.

 

[shamus63]

Thanks guys! Yeah, the A/B/Y hook-up had crossed my mind, but I really want to keep the gadget/battery count to the bare minimum (got two in the Bongo as it is).

In reference to AD's bi-amping reference, you're probably right about the definition. What I'm really trying to accomplish here is mixing my two favorite bass amp tones (Ampeg warmth and GK drive/punch) to create (basically) my own sound...although I'm sure someone out there has gone this route before...maybe not with a Bongo...yet.

I read that Entwhistle tried many variations of amps/cabs/basses to try and find his own 'sweet spot'...some of those combos were brutal (in a good way!).

 

[bassmonkeee]

I read that Entwhistle tried many variations of amps/cabs/basses to try and find his own 'sweet spot'...some of those combos were brutal (in a good way!).

It's a lot easier to experiment when you aren't the one doing the load in/out, too.

If it's a dedicated tuner output, then there shouldn't be any problem with it hurting either the Ampeg, or the GK. I have no idea if the Ampeg is sending a bypassed signal to the tuner output, or if it is after the preamp, though. I would imagine that it isn't post-EQ, but you never know.

 

[shamus63]

It's a lot easier to experiment when you aren't the one doing the load in/out, too.

If it's a dedicated tuner output, then there shouldn't be any problem with it hurting either the Ampeg, or the GK. I have no idea if the Ampeg is sending a bypassed signal to the tuner output, or if it is after the preamp, though. I would imagine that it isn't post-EQ, but you never know.

Yeah, I'm one of those guys who prefers not to have anyone else load their equipment in/out...nobody to blame but myself if something gets dinged/dropped.

As far as the dedicated tuner, the GK BL600 has that feature, whereas the Ampeg B2R doesn't even provide a tuner signal...no problem though.

I'll be picking up one new GK 210BLX tomorrow...hopefully the other by mid-December!

 

[Dr. Nick]

Shamus63! Glad to hear you are finally zeroing in on your sound.

For what it is worth, I used to take the tuner out from my old Peavey 2x10 combo at the back of the stage and send it to the input of a B@hringer BX1200 wedge that I set up as a monitor at the foot of my mike stand. Worked great. The tuner out was pre-eq, so I could shape the sound on that B@hringer to my heart's delight and have the Peavey keep the drummer happy.

Ah, the good old days....

At the outdoor gig I just played, I set my rig up kind of sideways, and, at 30% volume, I could hear myself from one end of the stage to the other and was still quiet enough to let the PA mains do the real work. Nothing like headroom!

But, in the words of Homer S., I am intrigued by your idea of separate heads and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...

 

[shamus63]

Shamus63! Glad to hear you are finally zeroing in on your sound.

For what it is worth, I used to take the tuner out from my old Peavey 2x10 combo at the back of the stage and send it to the input of a B@hringer BX1200 wedge that I set up as a monitor at the foot of my mike stand. Worked great. The tuner out was pre-eq, so I could shape the sound on that B@hringer to my heart's delight and have the Peavey keep the drummer happy.

Ah, the good old days....

At the outdoor gig I just played, I set my rig up kind of sideways, and, at 30% volume, I could hear myself from one end of the stage to the other and was still quiet enough to let the PA mains do the real work. Nothing like headroom!

But, in the words of Homer S., I am intrigued by your idea of separate heads and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...

Hey Doc ~ don't know if I'll ever 'zero-in' on my sound, but I'm having a helluva fun time trying!

I just think it would be an awesome combination: Bongo > Ampeg > Gallien-Krueger...

 

[Dr. Nick]

Hey Doc ~ don't know if I'll ever 'zero-in' on my sound, but I'm having a helluva fun time trying!

I just think it would be an awesome combination: Bongo > Ampeg > Gallien-Krueger...

No, you are right! We never really "zero in" on it, perhaps we just get a little closer to catching that elusive tone...(which changes in our heads from day-to-day of course!)

Personally, me thinks you can't go wrong with any EBMM and a decent amp. Heck, it improved the sound of my Peavey 100% before I updgraded. Now it is on a totally different level!

But you are right, Bongo + Ampeg + GK. Can't go wrong! Happy low-end rattling!

 

[shamus63]

But you are right, Bongo + Ampeg + GK. Can't go wrong! Happy low-end rattling!

Thanks!

 

[Dr. Nick]

Man, I just noticed: The gear in your signature changes on an almost daily basis! You must have a lot of fun trying and trading, etc.! Excellent fun! I envy you!

 

[j rug]

I don't think the 'tuner out' will send enough signal. I had one of those Backline 600s and tried something similar. It didn't work for me. The 'effects send' output will work though.

 

[shamus63]

Man, I just noticed: The gear in your signature changes on an almost daily basis! You must have a lot of fun trying and trading, etc.! Excellent fun! I envy you!

It's an expensive love/hobby...but I could be blowing it on stupid sh*t...like drugs or whatnot.

I prefer this route nowadays.

 

[shamus63]

I don't think the 'tuner out' will send enough signal. I had one of those Backline 600s and tried something similar. It didn't work for me. The 'effects send' output will work though.

I might give that a try, but that won't run too hot (for the instrument input), will it?

 

[jlaplante]

You might also consider that the tuner out may not have the correct phase. In fact, mixing two different brands of amps may mess subtly with the phasing of the signals.

For most part, you may not hear much unless the signals are significantly out of phase, in which case there will be a loss of bass.

I have done a similar thing with two amps - I just use the tone controls as a pseudo-crossover. Turn the treble and mid off on the subs, bass down on the 10's. Not scientific, but can yield some really clean punchy sounds.

In the past, I have used the DI out from one of my GK 1001RBs to feed another. This is nice since the output is balanced, it is a simple matter to create a small cable to invert phase and try it both ways to see what sounds best. Alternatively, do the same with the speaker cable.

 

[j rug]

I might give that a try, but that won't run too hot (for the instrument input), will it?

It could run pretty hot depending on how you set the EQ. If it gets too hot you could use the input pad on the second amp though. I would just set the 'volume' knob where the GK sounds best, see how the second amp reacts (pad if necessary) and then use the master volumes to balance the outputs of both amps. You'll just have to mess with it some.

 

[shamus63]

I didn't even consider phase as a factor; showing my technical ignorance.

All of your responses are appreciated, especially given that I could just go the easy (and obvious) route of A/B/Y'ing the whole damn thing! I just think that the extra link is (probably) unnecessary.

 

[shamus63]

Well, I've decided to take the safe route and ordered myself a new A/B/Y box from Loop-Master (http://www.loop-master.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=40).

Yeah..it's one more battery in the line-up, but I just wasn't 100% sure about the tuner-out/effects loop-out option for linking two amps together.