Compound Radius Necks

[Ventanaman]

I have looked several times, and maybe I missed it, but it doesn’t seem EBMM offers a compound radius on any of their guitars. I know for some, the idea of a compound radius is that it is completely unesscessary, but now I am not so sure.

I have gigged EBMM Axis and Axis SS models almost exclusively for the past 20 years and as expected, I love the narrow, thick, 10” radius necks. But I recently had the opportunity to acquire a Suhr Modern T (dual humbuckers) with a 1 5/8” nut and 10-14” compound radius and I am surprised at the improvement in playability above the 12th fret. Used it a gig over the weekend, and it was great.

Most high-end manufacturers are now offering a compound radius, and with modern CNC equipment, it shouldn’t be that much more to produce. Any idea why EBMM hasn’t made this an option - at least through a limited run in the Vault?

 

[racerx]

My guess is that any change isn't trivial when it comes to a production line. Maybe they will try it on a limited run to gauge feedback, but it isn't something that seems overwhelming in demand either. I had limited experience with a Warmoth compound-radius, but it didn't make a significant impression on me one way or the other.

 

[Ventanaman]

For me, I was actually surprised in the difference in playing leads higher up on the neck.

I wonder what percentage of necks sold by Warmoth are compound. That would be a good indicator of general demand and popularity.

 

[DrKev]

I wonder what percentage of necks sold by Warmoth are compound. That would be a good indicator of general demand and popularity.

Not necessarily. Warmoth customers may be genetically aligned with compound necks, or in some other way not representative of the average Music Man guitar buyer. As racerx just said, it's a very non-trivial thing for a factory to add and increases the complexity/time/costs to a point that would limit its appeal if only doing one guitar model. Gibson tried it on a few models in the last 10 years but never kept it, and Fender only offer it on a very small number of guitars. That suggests the market is too small for a small company like Music Man to consider it. Also, in all my years on the forum there has only been a very small number of mentions of compound radius and I can't think of anyone else who ever requested it.

 

[fbecir]

I have never played a guitar with a compound neck.
But some brands like Charvel (and Charvel is part of the Fender empire) are producing all their guitars with compound necks.
Charvel are selling quite a lot of guitars thus we can expect that more and more players will ask for this feature.

 

[Ventanaman]

I appreciate the comments and understand the increased complexity and costs in manufacturing a compound neck on a large scale, but compound necks are now the standard at Suhr, and still believe it would be interesting to see sales data from the largest replacement neck manufacturer in the US - not drawing general conclusions. I also doubt Warmoth customer have a “genetic” alignment for compound necks.

I think Suhr is an apples to apples comparison to EBMM on their non-custom models, both on quality and price. I do not have insight to relative USA production capacity.

As a gigging Music Man guitarist (I have purchased my guitars through artists relations), I am surprised at how much I enjoyed playing the Suhr 10-14” compound neck. As always, YMMV and I in no way think Suhr is overall superior.

My big knock on the Suhr from the most recent gig, was tuning stability with the Gotoh 510 trem. The EBMM vintage trem on the Axis SS is just lights out - the most stable guitars I have ever played.

 

[racerx]

If you have some pull with Artist Relations maybe they can build you one then? Or have a luthier modify one of yours?

AFAIK data isn't publicly available in detail regarding specific configuration sales from any company. I imagine most companies would want to keep this private for obvious reasons. Publicly traded companies will report on their performance as a whole, but I don't think those documents get into per unit spec breakdowns (maybe they do, but I'm not a market expert by any means).

If it was a game changer (no pun intended) then I imagine one of the EBMM artists would've requested the change to their model by now.

 

[Ventanaman]

I am considering taking an Axis SS to have converted to 10-14” via PLEK, so we’ll see. I am going to guess that the guitars with flatter radius (>12”) outsell the 10” ones (maybe I am wrong).

I have a bunch of other ideas on how to modify the Axis line - other than cosmetic changes, it hasn’t had an update in a very long time. I have at least 10,000 hours under my belt on those wonderful guitars and would love to be a part of an “Axis III” design/focus group - and I only live 20 minutes from the factory!

I am thrilled with what EBMM has done with Jason Richardson Cutlass in taking an established platform and making meaningful modifications for a specific style of play. I think they could do the same with the Axis line. And with the Vault, they can do a limited run as a pilot program to get customer feedback.

Shoot me a DM BP!!!

 

[DrKev]

I also doubt Warmoth customer have a “genetic” alignment for compound necks.

I didn't mean it literally. My point is that players who spend money on custom necks and bodies are not representative of the larger guitar buying population.

 

[Ventanaman]

Players buying Warmoth necks are literally saying “I no longer like the neck that came with my guitar, so I am going to buy a different/better neck”. If there was data available on what playing are buying, it could guide current product modernization. For example, if I knew (hypothetically) that 85% of people spending $500 on a replacement neck had a certain set of features, I might want to consider implementing those features on my current production. Maybe no one is buying compound necks at Warmoth - I have no idea, but it would be nice to see data before drawing conclusions or dismissing ideas.

Are players spending $3K+ on a USA-made EBMM representative of the larger guitar buying population? Absolutely not.

I was on a factory tour the day EBMM started re-tooling for the Armada neck-through design, a significant change in how they produce guitars, and it looked like a MAJOR disruption for production team. While the Armada was discontinued, they kept the production process and presumably used that experience to develop the Majesty. It isn’t unprecentdented that EBMM would take risks.

Like all of you, I love EBMM, and even if they made no changes or other innovation, I would still be playing their instruments.

 

[racerx]

I think its cool to just share the feedback you'd like a compound radius board. I don't know that you need to back into it here. I'd guess your AR contacts are probably better equipped to direct your feedback though.

 

[Ventanaman]

Who knows - I have been playing 10” radius necks for 20+ years, and maybe I just like a flatter neck?

I might pick up a Luke III and give it a shot.

 

[GWDavis28]

Who knows - I have been playing 10” radius necks for 20+ years, and maybe I just like a flatter neck?

I might pick up a Luke III and give it a shot.

I'm pretty sure that the JP's have a flatter neck. The Luke is more strat'ish I believe.

Glenn |B)

 

[jayjayjay]

I am considering taking an Axis SS to have converted to 10-14” via PLEK, so we’ll see. I am going to guess that the guitars with flatter radius (>12”) outsell the 10” ones (maybe I am wrong).

Both the Fender Strat and Tele have a 9.5" radius as standard. I don't think it's a stretch to say those two comprise a significant amount of guitars currently sold. For that matter, Gibson Les Pauls have a 12" radius as standard (I note the Gibson Les Paul Modern is listed on Gibson's site as having a compound radius, however - so Gibson is in the game).

Compound radius guitars seem to be in favor with the shredding set, and for them it likely makes a noticeable difference. I note that the EVH Wolfgang model - Eddie's evolved guitar that started with the Axis - sports a compound radius neck. Charvel also seems to appeal to the shredders. Your average player who mostly stays below the 12th fret, though, probably would never see any significant advantage.

Where I'm going with this: Compound radius guitars are a relatively new innovation, similar to multi-scale guitars. They may offer advantages, but like most new innovations, they take time to be adopted, for a few reasons: People don't know what sort of impacts the changes will have, and many don't want to be guinea pigs, so you have the problem with a small initial market. As you mentioned, CNC machines allow compound radius necks to be made with repeatable precision. Before CNC machines, it would have been more difficult to put in a compound radius without having some variance between necks. CNC machines are rather pricey, and it's only recently that the technology has become more affordable for smaller shops to invest in.

I'd say give it time. If compound radius necks (and multi-scale necks, for that matter) offer genuine advantages over single radius necks with little or no drawbacks, they'll become more common place... maybe. There's always the vintage factor, though.

 

[TripHazard]

I discovered recently that the perfect neck for me is a 7.25-9.5 compound radius, coupled with narrow tall frets.
Just felt like home

 

[Ventanaman]

Both the Fender Strat and Tele have a 9.5" radius as standard. I don't think it's a stretch to say those two comprise a significant amount of guitars currently sold.

I was referring to sales at EBMM, and not all sales from all guitar manufacturers. However, you do mention EVH (12-16”), which is made by… Fender.

Of note, PRS doesn’t seem to offer compound radius either - almost everything they make is 10”, but they will make whatever radius you want through the private stock/custom shop. $$$

Next - let’s talk about those tiny 1/8” fret markers on a dimly lit stage…

 

[jayjayjay]

Next - let’s talk about those tiny 1/8” fret markers on a dimly lit stage…

Best solution I've seen for those is glow in the dark side markers. Kiesel has them, and I think you can order them from Warmoth. I wish they were standard on more instruments.

 

[Ventanaman]

Best solution I've seen for those is glow in the dark side markers. Kiesel has them, and I think you can order them from Warmoth. I wish they were standard on more instruments.

Now you're talkin'!

I would love to have the Luminlay side markers.

 

[TheSash]

I had several guitars with compound radius necks but I‘m not missing anything with my LIII‘s.
They are the best guitars I have ever played, doesn’t matter if they have a compound radius neck or not.

 

[Ventanaman]

Well folks, looks like the new Abasi Kaizen guitar has a... COMPOUND/CONICAL RADIUS!

"For the ultimate in comfort and playability"

I am definitely reaching out to AR and see if I get a couple of one-off necks for my Axis guitars. This would be sooo very cool.