Locked trem or hard-tail?

[candid_x]

I’ve never been a fan of any trem setup, as I do a fair amount of chord bending and want the tuning to be rock solid. I either spring them down tight or block it entirely with wood inside the trem cavity. For this reason, when possible, I’d always order a guitar with a hard-tail bridge. In this last year I’ve rethought that, and have come up with another conclusion, as it applies to my playing, feel and sound.

I settled on a trem set up on my first SS, because it was available at a price I could swing. A little later on, I purchased an Axis Sport hard-tail, and I noticed something interesting: I could use heavier gauge strings on the term set up, and still make the bends, vibrato and such, that I could on a hard-tail with lighter strings.

Then, I noticed something else: the trem system, which I had previously accused as being a tone-robbing accessory, lent my tone a character which I could not get from a hard-tail (remember that I’ve had several, not just basing this on these two guitars), a tone which to my ears was more “bluesy, bendy and sustainy”. I’m sure that much of this has to do with the trem-block itself, what it’s made of, how it’s designed. Apparently, EBMM makes a great trem block. As for bendy, I wonder if a string is longer or shorter through a trem?

Then, I recalled how Clapton blocked his trems, while I’m sure he could have had a hard-tail made up for any guitar his famous heart desired. I dunno, maybe it was all just binizz.

What are your experiences with this?

Bruce

 

[robelinda2]

interesting point, i've been thinking the same thing, i guess you really need to hear the same guitar with and without trem to really know. ive heard of so many players who block up a simple strat trem, when they couldve easily got a hardtail, so it must do something. i played the robert cray strat a few months back, thought it lacked a little spark, but i didnt think it was the hardtail, maybe it was in hindsight. both my hardtail balls sound amazing, i'd love to play/hear he 20th silo with trem to comapre to mine. maybe i'll just have to buy one!

 

[Eilif]

My trem guitar is a Luke, and my hardtail is an Axis SS, so I can't compare the sounds or comment on the effect of a trem or hardtail on the sound.

But I do notice that string bending is much easier on my Luke (which doesn't float) than on my Axis SS hardtail. This is something that I've only noticed recently (I hadn't played my Luke for about six months) and came as a surprise to me.

 

[candid_x]

Rob, send one of your hard-tail SS's to me and I'll test them, side by side.

Interesting. So I'm not the only who notices string tension differences.

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

When I have played trem guitars, they do feel a little more bendy to play on teh whole. Mind you, I prefer the stability and rock solid tuning that a hard tail gives you.

 

[Jimi D]

Extreme string bending may feel "easier" on trem guitars, but try double-stop bends or bending one string while sounding another fretted string that is supposed to remain true to pitch and you'll soon hear why - you're actually pulling the trem up slightly, so all your other strings will flatten as you do the bend... I know some PRS players who prefer their Customs with trems, even though they never even put in the bar - they just think the tone is better with the trem.

 

[candid_x]

Extreme string bending may feel "easier" on trem guitars, but try double-stop bends or bending one string while sounding another fretted string that is supposed to remain true to pitch and you'll soon hear why - you're actually pulling the trem up slightly, so all your other strings will flatten as you do the bend... I know some PRS players who prefer their Customs with trems, even though they never even put in the bar - they just think the tone is better with the trem.

On the stable tuning and bending while fretting other notes, that's why I lock mine down with a full-on set of springs or a block inside the cavity. When I bend for a double stop/chord, the bridge can't possibly lift up to throw it out of pitch. A floating bridge can be another story, though I've managed to block the G&L's before.

Interesting about the PRS players you mention.

No one has weighed in on string length of trem v.s. hard-tail.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I take what Jimid says but I don't think double stop bends are a problem - certainly with the Musicman trem system on the AL.
I've seen the "master of double stop bends" - Albert Lee twice this year and his guitar has a trem and he doesn't go out of tune.

I'd agree with Jimi if he was stating the fact, with a floyd rose set up.

(If or when I order my next AL with MM90's I'll have a trem for sure.)

Spud

 

[highenuff]

I have all vint trem balls, and block off the trem-I prefer the sound of the string hitting the metal vs., the hard tail which is wood.

It's personal choice though-good luck

 

[jaxadam]

Virtually all of my guitars are locking trems. I don't even really use the whammy much at all, I just really like the feel of them for some reason.

 

[pauldogx]

I learned to do double stop type bending on a strat---so when I go to a hard tail---its not much of an adjustment. On the reverse---if you learned string bending and such on a hard tail and went to a trem---I can see where it would be a serious adjustment. As far as the tone of a blocked trem----I think the springs in there add to the tone much the same way a spring reverb works---they have to be vibrating and adding to the tone--although I'm not sure of the degree. This is probably some of the tone difference people notice. I use a blocked strat-type guitar for slide and I love it!!!!

 

[Thirdpole]

My preference is a guitar with vintage trem, but blocked to down-only.

I tighten the springs so that the bridge just starts rising with a 2 tone bend on the b string.

This way, i get great tuning stability, i can go to drop-D without any pitch changes. I can break a string and the other strings stay in tune. I can double-stop bend without sounding out of tune. And, i can use the trem for down only !

Basically it is much like the way the Axis and Y2D floyds are setup ! Plus i simply LOVE the vintage trem bent steel saddles.

 

[Big Mike]

Rob, send one of your hard-tail SS's to me and I'll test them, side by side.

Interesting. So I'm not the only who notices string tension differences.

Never had a hardtail MM, but I notice it with my PRS guitars. ACtually, I've never had a MM guitar, (just a sterling bass I shoulda kept..) my first MM will be here Friday.

At anyrate, I agree 100% and I also like the resonance and 'airiness' the trem adds, even if you don't use it.

 

[candid_x]

Very interesting, guys. Thanks for your feedback on this.