Noise/buzz when touch tremolo or vol/tone control - JR Cutlass

[Sleeping At Sea]

Hey all,
I recently picked up the JR Cutlass 6 and starting to get familiar with it.
Tonight I was playing some more higher- gain patches and noticed that I was getting a bit more noise than normal and that when I touched either the Volume or Tone Knob the noise went quieter. If I touch the trem arm though and hold it , it makes a crackle sound. Not continuous, like a short burst.
I have a Valentine with a similar setup and it doesn't do this in testing with the same patches.
Those pickups aren't as hot as the JR though. I did try engage the boost but it was still quiet. This was on the bridge SC also.

On more low to mid gain tones the JR is quiet, and I can't hear any issues. Same with touching the trem.

Do I have a grounding issue somewhere you think? Or just due to the high gain exposing sensitivity of the pickups?

 

[uOpt]

"Sounds" like the wire connecting the bridge to ground is loose.

 

[jayjayjay]

"Sounds" like the wire connecting the bridge to ground is loose.

I see what you did there...

 

[Sleeping At Sea]

"Sounds" like the wire connecting the bridge to ground is loose.

How do I check this, not real sure what I'm looking for tbh! Due to the trem being tilted backwards I did recently adjust the claws to get the trem level again, perhaps something has come loose doing that.

 

[uOpt]

Does the noise get better when you touch the output plug? I mean better compared to touching the strings?

 

[Sleeping At Sea]

Did a bit more testing last night and tried moving away from the modeller to my AC30 with some pedals in front. In short, got the same thing BUT tried all my other guitars and found similar results but not quite as bad, probably due to the JR being higher output pickups.
So there is some electrical noise, and then touching any hardware makes it quieter.

Sounds like I have an earth problem hey.
Tonight I'll try unplug everything and try add one by one and see if there is a culprit. At least I'm pretty sure it's not the new guitar!

 

[DrKev]

So there is some electrical noise, and then touching any hardware makes it quieter.

Sounds like I have an earth problem hey.

No, that's not a ground problem, that's a sign of a good ground. My guess is the high gain and pickups, possibly mixed with some static electricity in your body? If it's not an issue when playing you're good to go. This is one of the reasons people use noise gates.

 

[Sleeping At Sea]

No, that's not a ground problem, that's a sign of a good ground. My guess is the high gain and pickups, possibly mixed with some static electricity in your body? If it's not an issue when playing you're good to go. This is one of the reasons people use noise gates.

That was a really informative video, thanks! I've spent this morning unplugging everything in my studio and checking noise on all my guitars through both my Quad Cortex and the AC30. In summary, as the video suggests when I was touching the hardware on my guitars the noise reduced. But...what I found was with my Cutlass, when I touch the volume/tone knob it was the same as the other guitars and the noise got quieter, but when I touch the bridge, it actually makes the noise worse rather than quieter. The guitar also produces 'more' noise just in general even if I turn the volume knob down.

Test I just did:

• Valentine into AC30 with OD pedal on, +20db boost engaged.
  • Very noisy as you'd expect, but touching any of the hardware didn't add or make a change to electrical noise.
• Cutlass into AC30 with OD pedal on, no boost engaged.
  • Much noisier than the Valentine but when I touch the volume/tone knob noise went down closer to the Valentine noise level. When I touch the bridge cover it is adds much more electrical noise.

Is this still pointing to the bridge ground do you think?

Here is a pic of what it looks like inside.

I did remove the electrical side cover and there was the ground wire that is loose that sits in one of the screw holes, I slide that in when putting the cover back on and screwed it down so that should be fine.

 

[DrKev]

OK that's the information we need! If you touch the bridge and noise *increases* it does sound like a ground issue. Noise *decreasing* when you touch the knobs says there is a good ground connection present at the controls so bridge ground is definitely the thing to look at. Great job finding that out!

With the proviso that I don't know the electronics of the Cutlass model, the bridge ground wire is the obvious and easy first suspect. If you have a multimeter, check the resistance from the bridge or the trem spring claw, to the other end of the ground wire from the claw where it's soldered inside the control cavity, and then to the back of a pot or barrel of a cable plugged in. Each reading should be no more than 1 or 2 ohms.

You can re-flow solder on the tremolo claw right away and see if that helps BUT it's a lot of metal there to heat up so you may need a 40 watt soldering iron to do it, it will all get very hot and you will need to hold the wire firmly in place and not let it disconnect while you do so. If your soldering iron is underpowered or you don't have the skills/experience to do this within your comfort zone, you should absolutely contact your dealer and/or Music Man customer service before doing anything. Especially inside the control cavity, one wrong move could permanently damage something and you'll be up a stinky creek with a voided warranty.

 

[Sleeping At Sea]

OK that's the information we need! If you touch the bridge and noise *increases* it does sound like a ground issue. Noise *decreasing* when you touch the knobs says there is a good ground connection present at the controls so bridge ground is definitely the thing to look at. Great job finding that out!

With the proviso that I don't know the electronics of the Cutlass model, the bridge ground wire is the obvious and easy first suspect. If you have a multimeter, check the resistance from the bridge or the trem spring claw, to the other end of the ground wire from the claw where it's soldered inside the control cavity, and then to the back of a pot or barrel of a cable plugged in. Each reading should be no more than 1 or 2 ohms.

You can re-flow solder on the tremolo claw right away and see if that helps BUT it's a lot of metal there to heat up so you may need a 40 watt soldering iron to do it, it will all get very hot and you will need to hold the wire firmly in place and not let it disconnect while you do so. If your soldering iron is underpowered or you don't have the skills/experience to do this within your comfort zone, you should absolutely contact your dealer and/or Music Man customer service before doing anything. Especially inside the control cavity, one wrong move could permanently damage something and you'll be up a stinky creek with a voided warranty.

Thanks DrKev! I'll be honest, while I am comfortable with basic setups I haven't touched a soldering iron or used a multimeter in years. I'm working back with the dealer but I live overseas so will have to see what they recommend!

In looking at the springs, you can see the wire tucked underneath. A strange place for the ground I'd think - does this look normal?

 

[DrKev]

No problem with it being tucked away, but I don't see where it's soldered. Give it a tug and see if it's secure.

 

[Sleeping At Sea]

I had a quick look last night when I took that photo and it looks like it's attached just under where the spring connects. I put a tiny screwdriver in to give a little tug and it seemed quite firm actually! Definitely wasn't loose.
I'll have a better look tonight though.

 

[uOpt]

So there is some electrical noise, and then touching any hardware makes it quieter.

If the noise gets better when touching the strings or bridge then your bridge is grounded.

If you touch the output plug, is that about the same reduction as touching the strings?

 

[Sleeping At Sea]

If the noise gets better when touching the strings or bridge then your bridge is grounded.

If you touch the output plug, is that about the same reduction as touching the strings?

The noise gets louder when touching the bridge and strings and quieter to silent when touching the tone/vol knob or output jack.
I also got hold of a multimeter and I'm getting resistance when touching the output jack and bridge but none when touching the knobs. Id say something wasn't connected properly for the bridge ground but nothing I can easily see.

I'll take it into a tech soon and hopefully they can diagnose it!