To some extent the audience can't tell. However I know when I used to use a roland modeller, I always got told I had a good sound, but the sound guy should fix it up a little. When I bought a 5150 people thought I finally got the sound guy to do his job, and/or I was playing better ... it was just the difference in the tone and the feel. I don't think its so much that the audience can't hear the difference, it's that most people (non-musicians) don't give a damn. Alot of em in a club, are wishing they'd come the night before, when it was a DJ, and not a live band.
- Thread starter Danjp1928
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Norrin Radd
Well-known member
jimmyp said:Sit on fence time - for gigging or jamming, TUBES! For pissing about in my bedroom, practice and recording, get the POD out. When cranked up though, there is nohing that moves air the way a good quality valve amp does, especially if you mostly play rock
+1!
Eddie Van Halen
Well-known member
I prefer tube at home and playing for crowds, but Digital amps are getting there
beej
Moderator
This is one of those subjective arguments that neither side can win
Digital technology has revolutionized every facet of modern life. And it's pretty tough to imagine making, recording or playing music without it.
The tube/digital argument reminds me a lot of the CD player/record player debate that used to rage on. Proponents of analog components & record players swore up and down that CDs sounded too "sterile" and that the sound just wasn't the same. This debate is now a thing of the past. (We do know how much the analog process, record player and all, actually coloured the sound. We got used to the coloured sound.)
I'll admit we're not there yet. Not becuase we can't accurately reproduce a specific sound or waveform (which digital technology does brilliantly), but rather because we're used to the way tube amps react in a variety of situations and we haven't modeled every little bit of that interaction digitally yet. And because we're not used to how conistent digital amps sound, which we'll probably get used to.
I've been into this stuff since I bought a Rocktron ProGAP more than a decade ago (it was the first decent sounding digital preamp I ever heard). I can't believe how far we've come since then- each generation of modeller is a major step ahead.
Given all of this, it's only a matter of time before digital amps take over a significant chunk of the market.
Digital technology has revolutionized every facet of modern life. And it's pretty tough to imagine making, recording or playing music without it.
The tube/digital argument reminds me a lot of the CD player/record player debate that used to rage on. Proponents of analog components & record players swore up and down that CDs sounded too "sterile" and that the sound just wasn't the same. This debate is now a thing of the past. (We do know how much the analog process, record player and all, actually coloured the sound. We got used to the coloured sound.)
I'll admit we're not there yet. Not becuase we can't accurately reproduce a specific sound or waveform (which digital technology does brilliantly), but rather because we're used to the way tube amps react in a variety of situations and we haven't modeled every little bit of that interaction digitally yet. And because we're not used to how conistent digital amps sound, which we'll probably get used to.
I've been into this stuff since I bought a Rocktron ProGAP more than a decade ago (it was the first decent sounding digital preamp I ever heard). I can't believe how far we've come since then- each generation of modeller is a major step ahead.
Given all of this, it's only a matter of time before digital amps take over a significant chunk of the market.
phatduckk
Well-known member
im still a big fan of tube amps. my feedback is pretty generic: digital sounds "fake" to me.
i got this marshall combo (250dfx i think) and i hate it. it just sits in the garage while i rock out on my F&*der Blues Junior. i dont have too much experience with digital stuff so its definately possible that one day ill run into a unit that blows me away.
to each their own. most importantly ... i feel like i play music for myself and its just a bonus when other people like it. so if youre happy then go nuts
i got this marshall combo (250dfx i think) and i hate it. it just sits in the garage while i rock out on my F&*der Blues Junior. i dont have too much experience with digital stuff so its definately possible that one day ill run into a unit that blows me away.
to each their own. most importantly ... i feel like i play music for myself and its just a bonus when other people like it. so if youre happy then go nuts
Norrin Radd
Well-known member
blackspy said:
Fair, it is, your request. Attempt to conform, I shall endeavor.
jimmyp
Well-known member
Norrin Radd said:Fair, it is, your request. Attempt to conform, I shall endeavor.
Impressive, most impressive, but you are not a Jedi yet...
Sigmunds Couch
Well-known member
Digital or Tubes, Tubes or Digital? What about both?
I use a Johnson Amplification JM250 modeling amp. It gives the best of both. There are two 12AX7's in the input stage before the modeling section so I get tube response/saturation. The amp models themselves are very very good. I A/B'd the models against alot of the original types and they are extremely close. Granted, there are some minute sonic differences but in a live situation, only the gearheads will really be able to pick it out. Sometimes only by the fact that you hear a Fender Twin or a Matchless DC30 or a Marshall JCM800 but don't see one on stage.
I do love the dynamics of a tube power amp however, so to liven the sound up for recording or those special live situations, I just route the XLR direct outs into a Peavey 50/50 tube power amp. Nothing like the sound of tube power! So I feel that I get the best of both the digital modeling world and the tube world. The only downside is Line6 crushed Johnson in the marketing department and Johnson got out of the amp market. I've got my main and a backup. Astonishingly enough, just like one all tube amp will sound better than an identical model, the same is true with my Johnsons. The upside, I have the sounds of a multitude of amps with the dynamics of tube power without the horrendous dent in my wallet.
Most of the other digital modeling pedals/amps have the direct outs but I have not tried another modeler into tube power so I can't say if they respond the same way the Johnson does. If someone has a POD or a Vetta or a GeNetx or some other modeler, give it a try and let us know.
I use a Johnson Amplification JM250 modeling amp. It gives the best of both. There are two 12AX7's in the input stage before the modeling section so I get tube response/saturation. The amp models themselves are very very good. I A/B'd the models against alot of the original types and they are extremely close. Granted, there are some minute sonic differences but in a live situation, only the gearheads will really be able to pick it out. Sometimes only by the fact that you hear a Fender Twin or a Matchless DC30 or a Marshall JCM800 but don't see one on stage.
I do love the dynamics of a tube power amp however, so to liven the sound up for recording or those special live situations, I just route the XLR direct outs into a Peavey 50/50 tube power amp. Nothing like the sound of tube power! So I feel that I get the best of both the digital modeling world and the tube world. The only downside is Line6 crushed Johnson in the marketing department and Johnson got out of the amp market. I've got my main and a backup. Astonishingly enough, just like one all tube amp will sound better than an identical model, the same is true with my Johnsons. The upside, I have the sounds of a multitude of amps with the dynamics of tube power without the horrendous dent in my wallet.
Most of the other digital modeling pedals/amps have the direct outs but I have not tried another modeler into tube power so I can't say if they respond the same way the Johnson does. If someone has a POD or a Vetta or a GeNetx or some other modeler, give it a try and let us know.
jimmyp
Well-known member
I would like to try one of the new Atomic Reactor amps that you can plug your POD into - still won't be as good as a valve amp, but will be really versatile and more portable than my backbreaker 5150
tube all the way, theres cirtain tube characteristics that digital amps will never be able to produce. Every tube amp has its own personallity, if everything went digital it would all be the same.
Now on the other hand digital amps are great for practacing and are much more cost effective if you are only a practicing musician and dont gig or perform.
Now on the other hand digital amps are great for practacing and are much more cost effective if you are only a practicing musician and dont gig or perform.
akozols
Well-known member
Hi,
I read the posts everyday, but don't often post. I had an EVH and a Sil Spec that I stupidly sold, and I guess I like to torture myself by reading how great they are.
Anyways, I agree with the digital stuff not having the feel. I had a V-amp2, and an X v-amp. They both sounded great, but it just didn't feel right when playing them. I believe it's the latency delay of the units. I confirmed this with Behringer and there is a 5ms delay between what goes in and what comes out. I have a cheap Zoom 2020 and 505 and both of them have analog preamps. I prefer the way they sound, but more importantly, like the way they feel.
Al
I read the posts everyday, but don't often post. I had an EVH and a Sil Spec that I stupidly sold, and I guess I like to torture myself by reading how great they are.
Anyways, I agree with the digital stuff not having the feel. I had a V-amp2, and an X v-amp. They both sounded great, but it just didn't feel right when playing them. I believe it's the latency delay of the units. I confirmed this with Behringer and there is a 5ms delay between what goes in and what comes out. I have a cheap Zoom 2020 and 505 and both of them have analog preamps. I prefer the way they sound, but more importantly, like the way they feel.
Al
Preference
My my my, this is tricky. Personally I opt for valve amps but only a few kinds - for example I don't like Marshall amps, valve or otherwise, and Ashdown amps are the absolute pits (in my humble opinion). But I still reckon that you cannot come close to the tone of a decent valve amp with any kind of modelling. It just will never give you the true unadulterated tone of your guitar. But I love using digital effects - they're great fun and sound good too; it's all about preference (sorry I'm writing a bible here...
My my my, this is tricky. Personally I opt for valve amps but only a few kinds - for example I don't like Marshall amps, valve or otherwise, and Ashdown amps are the absolute pits (in my humble opinion). But I still reckon that you cannot come close to the tone of a decent valve amp with any kind of modelling. It just will never give you the true unadulterated tone of your guitar. But I love using digital effects - they're great fun and sound good too; it's all about preference (sorry I'm writing a bible here...
