Tones: Questions

[darincabell]

OK, I finally had a chance to record for the first time ever on guitar. I used my Petrucci Music Man to record a demo for music school. For a demo, I'm pretty pleased, but something drove me nuts afterward. I hear all these tones in my head that I think would be cool, but I'm pretty inexperienced when it comes to working with guitars, amps, etc. Electric guitar is fairly new to me, so I know I've got a lot to learn.

Anybody that wants to answer, feel free. How DO YOU or DID YOU go about finding tones that you liked? Was it just hit or miss, playing around, trying things? How much do individual guitars play into what sound you can get?

I know that if I go to school, that is one of things that is emphasized, but right now, it is a little frustrating. Fire away when ready. Anything will help. I appreciate it.

 

[koogie2k]

Welcome to the addiction. Also, you are from my hometown....which is a plus

Tones...man, I have been working on mine for quite awhile now. Hit or miss is what is going on with me.

My tone sensei, that would be OC is probably going nuts answering all my ???'s but, he is really helping me with info on what to try to help me go for a certain sound I am after.

There is going to be quite a few peeps on here that are more than willing to help you out.

My tone is being centered around a Marshall, so that is where I started. Does that mean you have to start there....no. Try out stuff at the store, but I would make sure you use the same exact amp and bring YOUR guitar. Do not use one at the store, as all guitars sound different to me.

Hope this helps.

 

[SteveB]

Even if you had an awesome tone coming from your rig, you may have a hard time capturing that sound on 'tape' (or hard disk).

I have a small home studio, and sometimes when I record the electric guitar I use a direct send from my Digitech RP2000 modeling pedalbaord right into the mixer (using speaker cabinet emulation). This can work well for lead sounds.

For other sounds (like a clean sound with lots of sustain), I seem to have better results playing through the amp & speakers and using various combinations of close and distant mic'ing.

The actual acoustics of the room also come into play anytime you're using a microphone.

So, to answer your question somewhat, I'd say you just have to experiment to find a tone that you like. Then, you need to find a recording engineer who knows how to capture that sound, or figure out how to do that for yourself.

I think that in the big picture, the actual guitar makes only a small difference (i.e. the pickups and the sustain of the body are probably the only characteristics that you'll find make much difference).

Yngwie could probably pick up any guitar and still manage to sound like Yngwie, regardless of the guitar, amp, effects etc.. I don't know about anyone else, but I can usually identify a player by their vibrato technique, and that comes through regardless of the gear.

 

[kbaim]

SteveB makes a lot of good points.

Also, I've heard steve morse say his sound is different for deep purple than for his own stuff. More mids in his, more full spectrum for dp. He does this to accomodate the other instruments in the band

If you have certain guitarists in mind whose tone you really like, a book called something like GEAR SECRETS of guitar gods may point you in the right direction. EVH is on the cover. Been out about 1-2 years.

It has rig set ups of lots of famous players, including morse, Randy rhoads, evh, eric johnson, satriani.

Another plug for line 6...The manual that comes with flextone II's gives a brief explaination of the different amp models and mentions players that use that setting for their tone, so you can get pretty close.

I use the soldano setting for saturated overdrive sound/tone somewhat like satriani's...but for some strange reason, it sounds like his tone but not his chops

Which is why I play clean more and more these days.

 

[deadringer]

Wow, asking tone advice is a lot like asking the meaning of life. There are so many responses and none of them are wrong or right. Here's a few I've learned over the years that serve me the best.

1. Keep an open mind. You don't know how something will sound until your hearing it.

2. Don't let anyone tell you that what you're doing is right or wrong. There may be an easier or more effective way of getting your tone but the one you like best is the one for you.

3. Try not to listen to marketing hype more than your own gut. This can be hard sometimes but is pretty important.

4. Listen to everybody around! If you hear something you like, find out what they're using and try it out. Maybe you'll only learn that you like a certain effect or pedal there using to maybe you'll find that you like their whole rig.

5. It's okay to have guitar hero and be influenced by them. Just don't try to be them. It's not what music is all about. I know too many guys that will go out and change their rig as soon as Mr. (Insert hero here) changes a piece in his rig.

6. If you limit your information gathering to only other guitarists you're missing out on a ton of smart people. Talk to studio techs and engineers, talk to luthiers, talk to live sound guys, talk to other musicians, talk to anyone who can teach you something.

7. Always be mindful of your needs. As guitar players we often rely on overkill. If your playing a small coffee house, you don't need two full stacks! Buy and use the gear you need for the things that you're doing, no more & no less.

8. Never be afraid to be unafraid. Pioneers take chances that other don't. Everyone else is just borrowing from someone else.

For me, getting my tone is pretty easy. It's in my hands 100%. I can play acoustic or clean electric or super high gain stuff and I'm in there. No two players sound the same through the same rig. Experiment a lot with settings!

As for guitars, different guitars will sound different. The different components of guitars will make factors of the overall tone stand out. Such as the twang of a strat versus the warmth of a Les Paul. To help find your tone you're going to want to learn a little about these components and how they'll add up to make the sound.

For me, finding a comfortable guitar that you want to play is the first priority. Sure, there are features I look for in a guitar (7 strings, humbuckers, a floating bridge, piezo, etc.) but if I find a guitar that doesn't have all those features but is inspiring, I'll go there!

Okay, admittedly this is one of my life's obessions. With that in mind, I could (and if don't force myself to stop now) and will go on all day long! Ask any questions you have, I love this stuff.

 

[darincabell]

Wow, really good replies everbody...thank you...I'm going to print these off and read them more closely. There's a lot of stuff that gear wise, I'm just ignorant about. It's almost like learning a new language for me. It's really, really new, so I may be asking some more questions about rigs and gear down the road.

koogie2k: SA is so humid right now, it feels like wading in Crisco (not that I've ever done that).
deadringer: I'll be chewing on all those ideas for a while. Thanks for the advice...passion/obsession whatever you want to call it...it's good.
kbaim: My favorite quote from you... "it sounds like his tone but not his chops"...that cracked me up. Thanks for the Gear Secrets tip too.
SteveB: Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

Peace out.

 

[hbucker]

Ditto on everything that's been said so far. Especially on capturing a good tone on a recording. It's a lot harder than you'd think. Here's a long winded recap of what I've learned over several years now.

Over all I'm probably 90% satisfied with the tone I get out of my various setups. They aren't very complicated but it took me years to come to where I am now. Some of it was finding the right gear. Some of it was just accepting the tone I generate. Things I learned along the way:

1. Your amp sounds different when you're playing with other people. What was awesome tone when you were alone, now seems flat, stale, muffled, harsh, etc. Throw into the mix the fact that you're probably playing much louder than you do when you're practicing in the basement and it will seem like you're playing someone elses amp.

2. Your amp sounds different in different rooms depending on size, acoustics, people in the room, etc. Be willing to adjust eq's and effects to accomodate the new surroundings. Don't get stuck in a, "This is just how I do it." mode.

3. The amp looks good. The company that built it is good. Their philosophy of amp building is good. Their price is right. All my friends say it's awesome. Why don't I like this amp? Is there something wrong with me? No. It's just not the amp for you. There's nothing wrong with anybody.

4. I bought an amp and loved it. 2 years later I hated it. I replaced it with another amp and loved it. Two years later it broke. That's o.k. I was wanting to go in a different direction anyway. So I bought another amp... this goes on and on until you finally realize: what you need, what you want, what you like instead of what others tell you that you need, what you like, etc. Especially if you're young/new to the wonderful world of guitars. Get the best you can now but realize that in 2 years, your tastes may change enough that you'll want to get rid of whatever you're buying. This may temper the $$$ amount you're willing to spend right now.

5. I finally realized that I won't have EVH's or SRV's or Jimi's or Eric's tone. I think you can hear these influences in my tone which is nice IMO. But it's MY tone. Once I realized I needed to stop evaluating gear by how much it sounded like them and start evaluating on how it sounded like me, I could start picking out gear with ease. Actually, the gear either speaks to you or it doesn't within moments when you know what YOU want.

6. Practice. Get better and you'll realize how to make many many tones regardless of the amp or guitar you're playing.

7. Every amp is set differently to find it's sweet spots. Too many people, including me years ago, have a mindset of "This is how I set an amp's eq to get the tone I want." This is the wrong approach. You need to work with an amp and figure out what it will give you and what it won't give you. Sometimes you can push it in different directions and sometimes you can't. But it varies. And frequently, you'll turn the eq in oposite directions to optain similar results when dealing with different amps. This doesn't mean either one "sucks!". It just means they're different. Wow! What a concept!

8. Find a guitar that is comfortable for you to play and that is at least generally the style of guitar that suits your music. It's o.k. for you to nit pick subtle aspects of your guitar tone and playability. But the audience probably doesn't hear any difference at all and if they do hear a difference, they couldn't care less. All your fussing is for you. Not them. Let's not make ourselves out to be more selfless than we really are.

9. Surround yourself with supportive, positive people. These are the folks who will allow you to do your own thing and still be supportive even if it's different from what they'd do. They may give you some ideas and criticism but over all, they're there to support you. This will really free you up to find your own tone and you'll have much more fun in the mean time. If you feel pressure to "buy this" or "play like that" then you should find a new crowd.

Sorry if this is long but I just wanted to add my 98 cents to the discussion. Good luck with your music.

 

[darincabell]

Thanks everybody...good, good stuff.