Tremolo setup

[fbecir]

Hello

One the TGP forum, someone posted a nice video of Carl Verheyen, where he explains how he setups his tremolo :
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy-F7iSIopA&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Carl Verheyen Guitar Lesson 2 - Whammy Bar Setup Secrets[/ame]

Carl uses a Fend... but if it works on a Fend..., it will work better on a MusicMan

So I tried to setup my SUB with Carl's technique ... and it works perfectly

Before, my tremolo was decked. With Carl's setup the tremolo stays really in tune (but with a MusicMan tremolo it's always the case) but it allows also to try some nice licks (for instance the Jeff Beck licks that Carl show in the video).

It's really worth a try. I don't know if I will keep this setup but I am tempted ...

 

[Roubster]

Nice video...I actually realized this some time ago as well. Like Carl said it really is just physics...so the angling of the trem claw makes perfect sense.

 

[D.K.]

Oh, that's a cool thing to try out on the AL, I guess !

Thanks a lot, Francois

 

[jbyrd]

How exactly did you go about setting it up like that?

 

[threeminutesboy]

Intersting think I will setup my Luke floating again my concern is that my bends are not in tune and I need to adjust

 

[fbecir]

How exactly did you go about setting it up like that?

Its quite easy. First you setup your claws in order to have the tremolo perfectly decked. After that, you unscrew a bit the claw for the high strings and you measure on the G string the effect of a full tremolo bend. If it's not enough (for instance the bend on the G string gives you a G#) you unscrew a bit the same claw. After a few tries you will have the perfect minor third (Bb) on the G string tremolo bend.

After that, it can be useful to check the intonation because your tremolo moved a bit.
It took me 20 minutes and it's always easy to go back to the original tremolo setup.

Good luck if you try this setup

 

[Spudmurphy]

Nice Video.
My LEAL is floating at the moment and I think I'll adjust it a la video clip.

 

[TNT]

Thanks Fbecir, that's a great way to set it up

Just one note commrades: when you do have a floating bridge which is originally designed for dives only, be sure that when you do "pull up" on the bar that it hits the deck "evenly"!

And, because this will almost certainly take place when you set up your "equal" string action (one correction always takes away from the other!!), you can remedy this using bridge "shims, so that the bridge lands "square" on the deck and your action stays equal under all strings as well.

 

[jamie_au]

This is exactly how my lukes are set up. Allows all those kinda things, plus the Luke 'smack on the whammy bar' trick.

Only downside is that you can't do three note bends as easily, but if I'm doing those, it's generally a country song and I'll be using one of my hardtails anyway.

 

[Slingy]

I tried a variation of this putting more springs on the bass side, but I might give that a go. Normally I dont like that much play on the bar.

 

[threeminutesboy]

This is exactly how my lukes are set up. Allows all those kinda things, plus the Luke 'smack on the whammy bar' trick.

Only downside is that you can't do three note bends as easily, but if I'm doing those, it's generally a country song and I'll be using one of my hardtails anyway.

Now I remember why I set it flat on the Luke my 3 notes bends where just awful This is a big part of my playing being a huge Clapton and Gilmour fan

 

[Roubster]

Now I remember why I set it flat on the Luke my 3 notes bends where just awful This is a big part of my playing being a huge Clapton and Gilmour fan

I dont seem to have a problem with this on my Y2D hehehe . This is exactly why it is a good excuse to have more guitars.

Back on topic again with the setting up of the trem, I loosened the trem claw on the side of the high strings a bit more, and the results certainly do work. I had a smaller angle before, but now I dont have the problem at all when you do a wide bend for example and it goes out of tune...especially on the G string. I love physics!

 

[Lance Romance]

I did this on my Albert Lee, played two shows this weekend, and was really pleased with how well it stayed in tune. I'm using four Raw Vintage springs on mine to smooth it out. I'm going to tweak the up-pull intervals, but this has great promise.
With any floating trem you have to deal with the tuning issues when doing multiple-string bends.

 

[fbecir]

With any floating trem you have to deal with the tuning issues when doing multiple-string bends.

True, and the other problem is when you have to change the tuning of a string (if you want to play in drop D for instance) : you have to tune all the strings. It can be a problem during a show where you don't have a lot of time for tuning (try to explain to a drummer that it's not really a good idea to start a song when you are still tuning your guitar )

 

[PaoloGilberto]

I moved the discussion here to not hijack the blackstar thread

I sent an e-mail to CS on this , let's see their opinion.

I am not sure if "full tremolo bend" as you explain in your thread can be a reference point for everyone of us.
full tremolo bend = you can not pull up more the tremolo bar? that's a little subjective reference point.

as I understand: after unscrewing the spring for the G B E strings, you suggested checking on the G string to pull up the tremolo until you have the perfect minor third (Bb) on the G string tremolo bend?
and when obtaining that the suggested setup is done?

Well, really it's not difficult. Just measure the original position of the clamps. If you are not happy with your new setup you just have to go back to the original position.
You only need a screwdriver and a tuner to check the amount of bend you apply on the strings.

 

[fbecir]

I moved the discussion here to not hijack the blackstar thread

Good idea !

I sent an e-mail to CS on this , let's see their opinion.

Another good idea

I am not sure if "full tremolo bend" as you explain in your thread can be a reference point for everyone of us.
full tremolo bend = you can not pull up more the tremolo bar? that's a little subjective reference point.

It's not subjective. When the tremolo touches the body of the guitar, you cannot bend more.

as I understand: after unscrewing the spring for the G B E strings, you suggested checking on the G string to pull up the tremolo until you have the perfect minor third (Bb) on the G string tremolo bend?
and when obtaining that the suggested setup is done?

Yes, it's what I have done. You can choose the minor third, but I am sure that you can choose another reference.
I believe that the idea is to have an equilibrium : enough tension from the springs after a dive bomb and enough tension from the strings after a bend.

 

[PaoloGilberto]

I don't know if the laws of physics are with me, but I am tempted to say that strings and springs tension is normally equally distributed along the bridge - so that metal bar where each spring is attached keeps the tension balanced, because there are 3 contact points

 

[fbecir]

I don't know if the laws of physics are with me, but I am tempted to say that strings and springs tension is normally equally distributed along the bridge - so that metal bar where each spring is attached keeps the tension balanced, because there are 3 contact points

In order to have an equilibrium, the sum of the force must be null but also the sum of the torque of the forces. Now, write the formulas

 

[PaoloGilberto]

I will check the opinion of a colleague from engineering department - a mechanical engineer

but let's keep in mind that the strings are fixed in 2 points - 1 at the bridge, 1 at the locking tunners.

different string tension is compensated also by adjusting the tunner machines for each string accordingly

having one string tunned to a different pitch than normal it changes for sure that equilibrium - for ex drop D tunning
and that why you need other adjusments

otherwise... why wouldn't MM for example setup their guitar like that from the beginning or as I said why not having strings with different tension right from the factory in all guitars !?

I will let you know the engineer point of view and I can wait MM CS's too

 

[BrickGlass]

I'd like to see someone take a Strat and set it up like that and see if their guitar stays in tune as well as his did. I've always thought Jeff Beck and Yngwie had some voodoo or spells going on to keep their guitars in tune. Grab some Big Bends Nut Sauce while you are at it.