Help! Very rare 87's Stingray "all black matched headstock".

[BASS67]

Hi everyone.

My name is Carlos from Spain. I'm a newbie on this forum.

I show you my recently adquisition, a very rare 1987 Musicman stingray, all black with matched headstock. Completely original, serial number 255xx, "May 20 1987" heel stamped, "Sep 25 1986" neck stamped, 85's pots... . I have never seen any other like this before. Ernieball Customer service told me that the bass is a standard from 1987 and that they never had a Custom Shop department, so I don't know what it is, color test, prototype, 89's "Darth Vader" ancestor? Could someone provide some information?. Thank you and I hope you like it.

 

[liverbird]

What’s the full serial?

 

[BASS67]

What’s the full serial?

Hello. 25526

FIND YOUR INSTRUMENT​

This finder expects serial numbers from guitars and basses manufactured in the San Luis Obispo, CA, USA facility. Unfortunately, this will not return details from Music Man Amps OLP or Sterling by Music Man instruments. Serial numbers will start with an uppercase letter followed by 5-6 numbers. Older instruments from the '70s and '80s will be all numeric, and will not be found by this finder.

Serial #	025526
Manufactured	June 22nd, 1987
Model	BASS STING BLACK ROSEWOOD 2EQ

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Hi Carlos. It may be just the pics but, when viewing the front of the headstock, it seems (to me) that the E, A & D tuner stems are a tad shorter than they should be. Viewing the rear of the headstock It looks like the E, A & D tuners are positioned further away from the edge of the headstock than the G tuner ???

 

[BASS67]

Good afternoon here in Spain.

I think it's the effect of the photo, they all measure the same, aprox. 70 millimeters in length.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Good afternoon here in Spain.

I think it's the effect of the photo, they all measure the same, aprox. 70 millimeters in length.

.
Yes. Obviously the angle of the pic. What did the seller tell you about the Bass when you purchased it ?

 

[BASS67]

Nothing ha,ha. He didn't know anything about colors, series, or anything about special models, I also thought he was a "normal" Stingray. Checking that everything was correct, that the components were original,internet pics, etc. I realized that there was none like mine.
In another forum has been told me that perhaps one was made for a show, event... and that it was sold there, is it possible?
I would say 99% that it was manufactured as it is, but I do not know the reason and if there are any more built.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

For some reason I can't open the pics you posted (neck heel, body pocket and preamp). Can you post them again?

 

[BASS67]

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[rhythmCity944]

Super cool looking with the all-black neck!

 

[BASS67]

Thank you.
Yes, it's a great bass. It has a slightly less ¿"punchy"? sound (sorry for my bad English) than the current ones, I like that, and what has surprised me the most is that I can get a very low string action, less than 5/64" on 12th fret, without fret buzz or noise, the best I've had. It's not very light though, 9.5 lb.
I would have liked to know more about it's "uniqueness", but it doesn't matter, I will continue to enjoy it.

Regards.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

.....I would have liked to know more about it's "uniqueness", but it doesn't matter, I will continue to enjoy it.

.
After looking at the neck heel pic I'm thinking the black on the neck is a refinish.

 

[kevins]

.
After looking at the neck heel pic I'm thinking the black on the neck is a refinish.

Id say that too normally but the neck is an 86 and those 86 finishes, they don’t all hold up too good. I got an 86 Sabre and the neck finish is a disaster, a 12 fret long line about a quarter inch thick along the g side of the neck has been worn all the way through with sweat over the years! The water slide logo on this, I feel like it’s too perfectly done to be a refinish, and a pretty close colour to what would go on the cutlass basses. Also Iirc musicman would refinish stuff that started cracking early on, and their go to on those refinishes was black, basically sprayed over the old finish.

Thank you.
Yes, it's a great bass. It has a slightly less ¿"punchy"? sound (sorry for my bad English) than the current ones, I like that, and what has surprised me the most is that I can get a very low string action, less than 5/64" on 12th fret, without fret buzz or noise, the best I've had. It's not very light though, 9.5 lb.
I would have liked to know more about it's "uniqueness", but it doesn't matter, I will continue to enjoy it.

Regards.

It’s got the old preamp in it! I’d hold on to it, refinished neck or not, an 87 is a really good year for them! It’s kinda hard cause it’s black but one of the best ways to check if it’s a refinish or not is to check the body finish for crazing or checking and then check the neck finish for the same. The two paints should age the same.

The neck for sure is an original musicman stingray neck, you can see the faint outline of the skunk stripe in the back there in the neck heel. An aftermarket neck wouldn’t be made that way and olp basses, or ray34s or sterling by music man never used a skunk stripe neck.

 

[BASS67]

Hi.

All parts of the bass has the same colour, finish, varnish and wear.

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[kevins]

If I could get a closer image of the paint on the neck!

So you see that image of the headstock with the decal, I’m 90% sure that is the original headstock colour, just cause the checking on the headstock and how it is in line with the water slide logo. As you probably can see if you look at it in the light, the paint sorta has gone soft, it’s kinda tacky, the same sort of thing that would cause paint to come off under pressure in the neck pocket like that. The early eb basses had a lot of finish problems and you can sorta see the way it reflects light in the body image where you can see the paint has lost its levelness.

Maybe someone refinished the back of the neck but I don’t think that’s the case, there’s so much old scratches and knicks on it. If someone did a good enough job on that neck refinish that they matched the colour of the neck woth the body and the headstock perfectly, they would have foe sure filled and sanded those dings and scratches. Matching the gloss and the colour on a black is pretty hard to do. Proving its original is gonna be a bear to do, but 2 things for sure, the headstock was originally that colour, the body was originally that colour, and the neck refinish is either old enough to where it’s aged with the rest of the paint, or it originally came with it, but the older the refinish, the less likely they’re going to be able to match it.

Whether it rolled out of the factory like that or whether musicman refinished it isn’t 100% for sure but in the grand scheme of things, if it were a refinish it’s not going to knock much value off of it. refinishes don’t really effect the value on a bass too much, even with things much more valuable than a 87 stingray. On musicman instruments the thing that could impact the value the most is if the electronics are modified. A refinish only really knocks 10% off tops, depending on whether it’s a good refinish or not.

In terms of playability there’s not much difference between a pigmented finish and a translucent gloss nitro or poly finish. They used to lay the gloss on there so thick that it might as well have been painted with a pigmented finish anyways.

I think it’s original just cause of how that decal looks and just cause of how the paint has aged all across the bass, but if you find the same wood grain looking checking in the paint in the neck as you have on the head stock, I’d say then it’s 100% the original colour.

 

[BASS67]

Thanks "Kevins". Very good explanation, possible and coherent.
I am not going to sell the bass (I would only do in a serious economic situation). I'm looking for info because I haven't seen one like this, because I find it curious that a rare bass made in the United States, ends up 35 years later in a Spanish small city, and because I think all of us would like to have an exclusive instrument, which didn't have anyone else, and if it has a factory finish, even better, don't you think?
With the gloss of the paint I can't take the photos well.

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[kevins]

The back of the neck on yours shows similar checking to the headstock, so I think it’s probably original. The only way I think that didn’t come out of the factory like that is if someone had the same exact materials to refinish the neck that musicman had and did so in 1987 or close to it. since that scenario is very unlikely, I think it’s original!

Musicman was doing really good in the late 80s! After a turbulent start to the 80s they closed the decade really finding their footing and making a lot of great basses along the way! It’s a really neat rarity I think!

Someone could argue about the skunk stripe, but the reality is that the skunk stripe is a different type of wood and they probably wouldn’t have made a maple skunk stripe just for the basses that had finished necks. I’m sure they wouldn’t try to make a finished neck on a transparent colour anyways! Could be one of the earlier experiments with finishing necks! Definitely have seen similar paint defects to that neck pocket on basses from a similar age, I’m gonna try to link the video with one of the first ebmm basses just so you can see how gnarly those poly finishes started off as!

 

[kevins]

But yeah look at around 2:50 on this video!

The early ones had a bunch of finish issues! My 86 and 84 Sabre both do, tons of checking on the 84 and the 86 has friction burns and a peeling tacky finish on the neck. Necks tend to have more checking than bodies on this regard as they have more tension on them and are smaller.

 

[liverbird]

Someone just posted this actually on a different thread! So apparently they were finishing the back of the neck in 88, at least on the 5 strings!

The back of the neck on yours shows similar checking to the headstock, so I think it’s probably original. The only way I think that didn’t come out of the factory like that is if someone had the same exact materials to refinish the neck that musicman had and did so in 1987 or close to it. since that scenario is very unlikely, I think it’s original!

Musicman was doing really good in the late 80s! After a turbulent start to the 80s they closed the decade really finding their footing and making a lot of great basses along the way! It’s a really neat rarity I think!

Someone could argue about the skunk stripe, but the reality is that the skunk stripe is a different type of wood and they probably wouldn’t have made a maple skunk stripe just for the basses that had finished necks. I’m sure they wouldn’t try to make a finished neck on a transparent colour anyways! Could be one of the earlier experiments with finishing necks! Definitely have seen similar paint defects to that neck pocket on basses from a similar age, I’m gonna try to link the video with one of the first ebmm basses just so you can see how gnarly those poly finishes started off as!

I think you misunderstand. "Finished necks" in this context simply means that they were lacquered as opposed to the oil/wax combo that started around 1992/93. In other words, every StingRay or StingRay 5 up to 1992 has a neck finished with clear lacquer - but not a colour coat.

That doesn't mean, however, that the 1987 on this thread couldn't be a factory one-off.

 

[kevins]

I think you misunderstand. "Finished necks" in this context simply means that they were lacquered as opposed to the oil/wax combo that started around 1992/93. In other words, every StingRay or StingRay 5 up to 1992 has a neck finished with clear lacquer - but not a colour coat.

That doesn't mean, however, that the 1987 on this thread couldn't be a factory one-off.

Edited post to reflect that!