1x12 or 2x12?

[roburado]

What's off-stage beaming?

 

[beej]

How it projects further forward. Might not be so loud on stage but the crowd hears that 4x12!

In the last year I've tried a few different speaker setups, and what I'm liking these days is a 2x12 open back cab (Guytron, surprise surprise). Most of the time we're miked, so I don't need to peel the paint off the walls. More important is how well I can hear myself on stage, and the OB cab lets enough sound bleed out the back that I can hear it much better than the closed back 2x12. Still has enough "thump" for me as well.

 

[roburado]

Thanks, Jason. Why does that happen?

 

[hbucker]

how about 4x10!!!!!! That rocks!

I've got a 4x10 that's awesome. But it is a bit of a beast to tote around. Mine is arguably just as big as some 4x12's.

 

[candid_x]

All closed back cabs have a beam effect. The nicest closed back 1x12 I've owned was a ported Bogner Cube. Surprising how huge that cab sounded when driven hard. But it too was very directional.

I closed the back off and isolated the amp section of a Twin Reverb. To make matters worse, I loaded it with monstrous ultra clean Altec Lansing speakers. This just before a showcase gig at Gerdy's Folk City. I destroyed the front rows, but could hardly hear myself on stage. A lethal and worthless mod. Don't know what I was thinking.

Since tube combos are generally open backs, an open back ext cab makes the most sense.

 

[roburado]

I was interested in those Avatar cabs. Now, I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[candid_x]

I was interested in those Avatar cabs. Now, I'm not so sure anymore.

I don't know about their 1x12 or 4x12's, but I wasn't impressed with their open back 2x12. First night I brought it to rehearsal/jam, the singer pointed out right away how suddenly the clarity had disappeared. I sold it within a month.

That said, I order all my speakers from Dave at Avatar. Great guy and his prices typically beat the competition.

Jfwiw, I'm using some cheap, discontinued open back cabs by Ear Candy. Prior to getting these I used Alessandro cabs, which were 4 times the price of the EC cabs, but which to my ears sounded nowhere near as good as the cheap cabs. Price doesn't equal tone, in many cases. The Aless's had a midrange swell, while the EC's sounded true, without being at all sterile. I tried several speakers in each, and each one proved the same.

 

[MusicManJP6]

I have two 1x12 Thiele cabs that I use with my Mesa MKIV and they freakin' smoke!! I like having the versatility to only use one or use both and the portability is unbeatable. Especially with my shorthead Mark head. No more back breaking hauling of huge 4x12s for me thanks!

EDIT: One thiele has an EV and the other has the newer C90. Both sound great!

 

[philiprst]

Rob,

One reason it happens is because the sound waves produced by each speaker interfere with each other. If you listen exactly in front of the center of a 4x12 array then all the sound waves coming in that direction are in phase which increases the volume a lot. If you listen off-axis, for example if you have a 4x12 on the floor and stand in front of it, then you can get cancellation of the waves soo the volume appears less.

"Off stage beaming" is my name for what typically happens with some people who use 4x12s. They change the volume based on what they hear off-axis on stage. The volume shooting into the audience is much higher.

Hope that helps!

Thanks, Jason. Why does that happen?

 

[Eilif]

My combo is open back, but I think I prefer a closed back cabinet in general, so the extension cabinet will be closed back. I could: 1) use the closed extension by itself; 2) use the extension in conjunction with the speaker in the combo if I want to "open up" the sound by having two speakers; or 3) disconnect the extension and just go with the combo if I'm doing something that favors an open back speaker. (Like fiddling with the 20th Silo's 2nd pickup position in the clean channel. Mmmmmmmmm......)

What has me thinking about getting a closed back extension in a 2x12 instead of a 1x12 is if I don't like how the open combo and a closed 1x12 extension sound together; I could simply disconnect the combo's speaker and have a closed back 2x12 with the benefits (ie, the "fuller" sound) of having two speakers. But this would be two speakers in the same cabinet, a situation that I've never experienced. (My multi-speaker epiphany came via two separate 1x12s--my open back F-30 and a closed back Marshall--and both were using the Celestion V30.)

What has me hesitating to get a 2x12 is the existence of 1x12 cabinets. Other than price and size considerations, I'm wondering if there is some advantage that a 1x12 has over a 2x12. I know that sometimes it's about personal preference, but if a huge number of guitarists, playing a variety of styles, prefer a 2x12 over a 1x12 (or vice versa), then there might just be something there.

The Thiele is a possibility if I go with a 1x12. I've heard good things about that cabinet.

Regardless of what I do, I'd like to get just a single extension cabinet, so a three 1x12 setup is not in the cards.

 

[roburado]

Rob,

One reason it happens is because the sound waves produced by each speaker interfere with each other. If you listen exactly in front of the center of a 4x12 array then all the sound waves coming in that direction are in phase which increases the volume a lot. If you listen off-axis, for example if you have a 4x12 on the floor and stand in front of it, then you can get cancellation of the waves soo the volume appears less.

"Off stage beaming" is my name for what typically happens with some people who use 4x12s. They change the volume based on what they hear off-axis on stage. The volume shooting into the audience is much higher.

Hope that helps!

Thanks, Philip. Makes a certain amount of sense.

 

[Eilif]

Let me spin this another way as this might make more sense and better reflect what I'm wondering:

Assume you have no amp whatsoever. You get a head, and you're going to get just a single cabinet. Size and weight are not considerations. Do you go with a 1x12 or a 2x12?

 

[candid_x]

Let me spin this another way as this might make more sense and better reflect what I'm wondering:

Assume you have no amp whatsoever. You get a head, and you're going to get just a single cabinet. Size and weight are not considerations. Do you go with a 1x12 or a 2x12?

All depends. Today I was playing through 2 1x12 cabs loaded with Em. Wizards, and wound up once again pulling one. With this particular setup, this combination of amp/speaker/cab/guitar, just 1x12 sounds way better to my ears. Change to a different speaker and I'd almost always choose 2 1x12's. Maybe my amp just sounds better running at 8 ohms rather than 4. There are no rules, there's only what you prefer. The only thing is, a big ole head sitting on a dinky 1x12 looks a little dorky, but if that doesn't bother you, I'd suggest trying one. If that doesn't cut it for you you can always add a second.

Or, you can go with what most players seem to prefer: a 2x12 cab.

 

[robelinda2]

thats when you get the tiny terror head. small head, small cab!

 

[Colin]

4x10 is a nice option... I like the 2x12 in an open back and in stereo also. I must be getting old as I used to love quad boxes...

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

I always use a 2x12, 1x12 never sounds that full. I always run my 2x12 combo on its side. It puts one of the speakers nearer your ear so you can hear it better so you don't have to blast the audience so much.

 

[Philip]

use combo for smaller clubs. Buy 2x12 for bigger gigs. Just unplug combo speaker and plug only the cab. It will be just like a head version

 

[greenwizard]

I'm dying to get a 2x12. Every time I try one I fall in love.

 

[JMB27]

use combo for smaller clubs. Buy 2x12 for bigger gigs. Just unplug combo speaker and plug only the cab. It will be just like a head version

+1 on that idea for being versatile