nervous
Well-known member
Made the full commitment almost a year ago, Started with a L6 Helix Floor, downsized with a couple HX Stomp, recently returned to the HX Floor and will keep one Stomp for backup. Love these.
Off Topic How many of you are playing modelers?
- Thread starter wesman11483
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Astrofreq
Well-known member
i get it. So you are going direct into the board off the modeler and into in-ear monitors. I don’t think I would be into that at all, but I haven’t tried it either.
PeteDuBaldo
Well-known member
While I've thought about modelers for years I haven't broken away from my '05 SLO-100 as it gives me the sound and feel that I like to experience when playing live. I've been toying with the idea of picking up something like the Bias Head from Positive Grid since it gets incredibly close to the sound of my amp (with the SLO patch), weighs a lot less, and gives me the flexibility of other amp sounds. Now that Mike Soldano has retired my particular SLO is not replaceable, but a modeler would be.
Two separate issues at play here.
1) Dynamic responsiveness. This, imo, was a sorta common problem in the first few years of modeler popularity. The clean patches sounded clean. The heavy ones sounded heavy. Which is fine, because honestly, any regualr amp set up for those extremes tends to behave pretty similarly. But the in-between patches tended not to respond to changes in volume or pick attack in the way you'd expect. But that really hasn't been a widespread issue for, like, a WHILE. Even at the very affordable end of the digital market, you'll find models that react VERY well to dynamic shifts. Look at the practice stuff from Yamaha, Vox, Boss and others. Suuuuuper impressive.
2) The sound of a cab: Yeah, I mostly agree. In a big enough space, the solution is to run into a cab for you on-stage sound, and DI to the board for the house sound. You get the feel of playing a "real" amp, and the audience gets the carefully controlled sound of a proper mix. But most rooms aren't big enough for that. So: IEMs. I've never had any headphone guitar experience that was wholly satisfying, but then, the show is for the audience.
1) Dynamic responsiveness. This, imo, was a sorta common problem in the first few years of modeler popularity. The clean patches sounded clean. The heavy ones sounded heavy. Which is fine, because honestly, any regualr amp set up for those extremes tends to behave pretty similarly. But the in-between patches tended not to respond to changes in volume or pick attack in the way you'd expect. But that really hasn't been a widespread issue for, like, a WHILE. Even at the very affordable end of the digital market, you'll find models that react VERY well to dynamic shifts. Look at the practice stuff from Yamaha, Vox, Boss and others. Suuuuuper impressive.
2) The sound of a cab: Yeah, I mostly agree. In a big enough space, the solution is to run into a cab for you on-stage sound, and DI to the board for the house sound. You get the feel of playing a "real" amp, and the audience gets the carefully controlled sound of a proper mix. But most rooms aren't big enough for that. So: IEMs. I've never had any headphone guitar experience that was wholly satisfying, but then, the show is for the audience.
LordRiffenstein
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2018
- Messages
- 98
At the studio I've done some work for I've used a Kemper quite a bit and I think it sounds really good. That was with the help of seasoned recording engineer though. I am still a little intimidated by all the banks and patches on these modelers so for my personal use I am playing through a Meas JP2C and a Revv Generator 7-40.
I am a fan of in ears. I use them when playing out, and I believe my tone there is better than when I play at home, but a big part of that is being “disconnected” from the amp. I’m usually too busy doing other things (remembering parts, communicating with the band) to worry about feel of the modeler, but the tone in my ears is glorious (to me). I don’t think the sound guy turning up me or down would change the feel, even if we used wedges.
The best way I can describe the feel of my amps, is that they push back against me playing the note. Like it’s a fight between me and the amp/cab. Through the modelers, it feels more like they’re doing their magic to my signal, but like the guitar is the only instrument.
I do find modelers react to the changes in picking dynamics. Maybe not the exact same way as the amp being modeled, but dynamic enough for my uses.
I owned a Kemper for a little while, and I would say it felt the most real.
Interesting thread and one I have been thinking about.
I tend to dial in my dirty sound and my clean sound and that's it. I have a number of amps in my studio that ostensibly I bought to allow some sonic options -- Carvin V3, Carvin Legacy II, Mesa Triple Crown, 5150 II, 5150 III, Mojave Peacemaker, Mojave Dirty Boy, Panama Fuego X -- but I tend to dial them in all the same. (I also have my old rack rig, which, honestly, I have not powered up in a year). LOL. You get subtle differences based on the amp, but they all mostly sound like me. My current live rig is the Mesa Triple Crown, a 4 space rack that mainly houses my TC G System and Crybaby rack wah, and my pedalboard including the TC controller.
Having said that, I am always "that guy" at the gig who has 23 things to load in and setup (and a bad back, to boot). When the drummer can load out faster than the guitar player, you got problems.
So, I have been really intrigued by modelers but have not taken the plunge, mainly because of what I said above -- I don't need 1000 amp models as I just set it to my sound. I am actually not much of a tweaker...
The reviews I have read (Premier Guitar, etc.) on the AxeFX III are pretty stellar. But I have been worried about:
1) what a lot of folks have mentioned above about that push/pull symbiosis between the guitar and the amp. People say the AxeFX models tube "sag" well, but I still think there's a real dynamic that impacts how I play. What jmmp@ said above about the amp being an instrument itself. So, worried about losing that.
2) I tend to dial in my sound in 1 minute and forget it. I DO NOT want to spend hours on hours building virtual rigs and tweaking things. And I DO NOT want to sit there tweaking virtual microphone placement and virtual cabinet impedance or virtual amp bias to try to get a sound.
I'm kind of curious about: How easy is it to get an AxeFX, fire it up, download or recall like, an EVH Brown Sound rig with all of EVH's chorus, flanger, whatever and just say "Well, that was easy!" and start rocking?
I tend to dial in my dirty sound and my clean sound and that's it. I have a number of amps in my studio that ostensibly I bought to allow some sonic options -- Carvin V3, Carvin Legacy II, Mesa Triple Crown, 5150 II, 5150 III, Mojave Peacemaker, Mojave Dirty Boy, Panama Fuego X -- but I tend to dial them in all the same. (I also have my old rack rig, which, honestly, I have not powered up in a year). LOL. You get subtle differences based on the amp, but they all mostly sound like me. My current live rig is the Mesa Triple Crown, a 4 space rack that mainly houses my TC G System and Crybaby rack wah, and my pedalboard including the TC controller.
Having said that, I am always "that guy" at the gig who has 23 things to load in and setup (and a bad back, to boot). When the drummer can load out faster than the guitar player, you got problems.
So, I have been really intrigued by modelers but have not taken the plunge, mainly because of what I said above -- I don't need 1000 amp models as I just set it to my sound. I am actually not much of a tweaker...
The reviews I have read (Premier Guitar, etc.) on the AxeFX III are pretty stellar. But I have been worried about:
1) what a lot of folks have mentioned above about that push/pull symbiosis between the guitar and the amp. People say the AxeFX models tube "sag" well, but I still think there's a real dynamic that impacts how I play. What jmmp@ said above about the amp being an instrument itself. So, worried about losing that.
2) I tend to dial in my sound in 1 minute and forget it. I DO NOT want to spend hours on hours building virtual rigs and tweaking things. And I DO NOT want to sit there tweaking virtual microphone placement and virtual cabinet impedance or virtual amp bias to try to get a sound.
I'm kind of curious about: How easy is it to get an AxeFX, fire it up, download or recall like, an EVH Brown Sound rig with all of EVH's chorus, flanger, whatever and just say "Well, that was easy!" and start rocking?
I'm kind of curious about: How easy is it to get an AxeFX, fire it up, download or recall like, an EVH Brown Sound rig with all of EVH's chorus, flanger, whatever and just say "Well, that was easy!" and start rocking?
Very easy. There are a couple of really great sources for Fractal tones that you can load in a matter of minutes and they are already tuned to go. Typically come in packs, so you pick pick a couple of your favorite clean, low, and higher gain tones, drop them side-by-side and you’re done.
Astrofreq
Well-known member
I’m becoming that guy too! I just built a new pedalboard with a Mastermind PBC Switcher, so that has brought a new level of complexity. I run stereo, so that requires I bring a 2nd amp. Plus my theremin, my synth toys on a table, and both the theremin and synth table each need a mic stand. Plus one guitar.
My main amp is an Engl Raider and the stereo signal runs through a Tech 21 power engine. But I only haul all of that out for long gigs. For a 45 minute set, I’ll bring my Engl Screamer, a footswitch, a DM-3 delay and a Moog ring modulator. It’s nice to have the big setup at a gig, but is definitely more exhausting.
An AxeFX3 would be nice, but most places we play don’t have a P.A., so I guess you would have to take an amp anyway, even with a modeler.
jones4tone
Well-known member
I know you asked this about the AxeFX, but for others' reference as well, on the Kemper I've done SO little tweaking. I use mostly profiles produced by Michael Britt (guitarist from country band Lone Star). I usually don't go past adjusting the gain and the EQ that's on dedicated front-mount knobs. I spend very little time in menus on the device, since playing is what I want to be doing. Mike's profiles are available for a wide range of amps (absolutely not limited to typical country fare - whenever he gets the chance to get his hands on a rare specimen, it gets profiled) and he does a great job of capturing the sound of them.
I find his profiles, generally, to be much more satisfying to play than those in the stock set. They respond to digging in the way an amp should, and have great tone.
I'm kind of curious about: How easy is it to get an AxeFX, fire it up, download or recall like, an EVH Brown Sound rig with all of EVH's chorus, flanger, whatever and just say "Well, that was easy!" and start rocking?
Well, the Axe has a patch called eruption, which will do everything from add phaser and detuning (IIRC), to acting like a backwards capo and actually drop the tuning of the guitar by a half step. Also, the Axe contains an amp model called “Brown” designed after EVH’s historic sound.
Line6 have a video on getting the helix to sound like classic EVH, and it certainly gets the spirit of it, and closer than I can get with any amp. I used that L6 video to dial in the guitar tone I used to play the VH version of Pretty Woman at my wedding, and I was quite pleased with the tone.
Edit: Here’s the L6 video.
Line 6 Helix: Van Halen Tone Tutorial - YouTube
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Magic Jason
Well-known member
I've played most of the modellers since they first came out.
Currently been using the Headrush for over a year and couldn't be happier!
This thing sounds great and is sssssssssso easy to dial : I spend my time PLAYING my guitar, not tweaking.
As unpopular as it may be, ditching my ****ty Fractal AX8 for the Headrush was one of my best moves!
Currently been using the Headrush for over a year and couldn't be happier!
This thing sounds great and is sssssssssso easy to dial : I spend my time PLAYING my guitar, not tweaking.
As unpopular as it may be, ditching my ****ty Fractal AX8 for the Headrush was one of my best moves!
I switched to an ElevenRack setup 7-8 years ago and is quite happy with it. I might try out a Line6 Helix LT at some point.
I love the versatility (I only play covers) and the ease of use. The appeal of the Helix for me is to be able to transport all my gear in two hands; EBMM Petrucci in one hand, floorboard in the other. Quick setup, no tweaking needed on my end for sound, sounds just like it did at home.
Yes, I do miss the feel of a big cabinet pushing air, but other than that, I love using the ElevenRack - and so does the sound technicians.
Mind you, the ElevenRack does take some effort to sound really good. I hear its easier with the Line6.
I love the versatility (I only play covers) and the ease of use. The appeal of the Helix for me is to be able to transport all my gear in two hands; EBMM Petrucci in one hand, floorboard in the other. Quick setup, no tweaking needed on my end for sound, sounds just like it did at home.
Yes, I do miss the feel of a big cabinet pushing air, but other than that, I love using the ElevenRack - and so does the sound technicians.
Mind you, the ElevenRack does take some effort to sound really good. I hear its easier with the Line6.
I struggled with the AX8 for a while because you can (unlike Kemper and Line 6) get so deep in the sound parameter settings that you almost need an engineering degree to understand everything. So I tried to become and engineer and it wasn’t fun and didn’t sound great, even though I learned a tone about things I never knew. HOWEVER, once I discovered Austin Buddy, Moke, and a handful of others that do the work of making everything sound authentic (even EVH tone) for not very much coin, I tried AB’s tone pack. Awesome. Very, very little tweaking. Drop it in, pick your favorites, and plug it into whatever you want. Sounds great. Just my experience.
The Kemper sounds great, but you pay a lot more for an amp and the tone is more or less static—because it is a snapshot of an actual tone you can’t really change it. And the feedback I got is that it is not that easy to get that snapshot right. So, went with AX. Haven’t played with Line 6, but what others have said is the intuitive interface is the best of the group, but the effects of the AX are noticeably better and the AX can be adjusted in literally every possible way.
The Kemper sounds great, but you pay a lot more for an amp and the tone is more or less static—because it is a snapshot of an actual tone you can’t really change it. And the feedback I got is that it is not that easy to get that snapshot right. So, went with AX. Haven’t played with Line 6, but what others have said is the intuitive interface is the best of the group, but the effects of the AX are noticeably better and the AX can be adjusted in literally every possible way.
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mikeller
Well-known member
How are you all monitoring your AX/Helix/Kemper for live use?
For my Helix, I purchased a Alto TS210 - didn't want to drop a bunch of $$$ because I didn't know if I'd like the Helix. I have only used my Helix live 4 or 5 times. When I could, I kept my Alto in front of it at a low volume and used IEM's. Several shows we were not allowed any stage amplification, so it was straight to IEM.
For my Helix, I purchased a Alto TS210 - didn't want to drop a bunch of $$$ because I didn't know if I'd like the Helix. I have only used my Helix live 4 or 5 times. When I could, I kept my Alto in front of it at a low volume and used IEM's. Several shows we were not allowed any stage amplification, so it was straight to IEM.
nervous
Well-known member
With the Line 6 HX Floor I am currently about 50/50 with A) back through the mixer as part of the regular band mix monitoring through a single mono QSC K12 and B) a pair of QSC K8.2 in stereo, facing me, on either side of my keyboard stand. The latter is my favorite by far and the stereo monitoring is fabulous. But not all places have the space or not often do I have the desire depending on the day, the job, the weather, my mood, etc for taking the extra gear.
wesman11483
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2018
- Messages
- 121
I think the struggles I keep coming back to are 1. My live monitoring situation is far less than ideal. We have moved (for the time) from IEMs to wedges...so sharing a mix.
2. The live cab. 3. As a dad of three under 5, I want to pick up my guitar and (silently or quietly) practice and have my tone instantly sound good...I want to play, not tweak.
Thanks for all the engagement. I believe I will be staying with my Eleven Rack...and I'll put all that rig money towards another EBMM!
Scott FB
New member
How refreshing to hear someone say they're going to stick with their Eleven Rack in 2019!
I decided to stick with mine as well and was able to justify buying my first Ernie Ball Music Man guitar!
Magic Jason
Well-known member
I used the eleven rack for a while and loved it!
I now own the headrush, which is"refined" and in pedal format.
Although some might disagree because the unit is "old", the 11 rack sounds great and is now dirt cheap.
I now own the headrush, which is"refined" and in pedal format.
Although some might disagree because the unit is "old", the 11 rack sounds great and is now dirt cheap.
