I had a very frustrating intonation issue with my String Ray which seems to be shared with other Stingray owners reported on this and other forums. The outcome is bitter sweet.
TLDR My bass is now intoned perfectly* ... but I can't use the strings I want. I believe the Stingray's compensated nut is a negative, not a positive.
(*- update from 10th Dec 2023. The issue seems present again even with the factory standard strings)
I learned a lot about intonation in the process of finding the solution, which I will share below.
In summary:
I got sucked into a fascinating world ...
My summary of my new knowledge on intonation:
In other words one inch pressed down near the end creates significantly more stiffness than press the line one inch in the middle.
Translated to the guitar this means pressing down the string near the nut at the first fret raises the pitch sharper compared with the same at the twelfth fret.
The 'normal' way of alleviating this effect is to make sure that the nut slots are cut so that the string height above the first fret is low as possible.
This means the distance and hence increased stiffness/sharpness is dramatically reduced. Most skilled guitar techs can do this.
But wait, the Stringray has this 'compensated nut' which is not adjustable in ANY way.
So what's the deal about compensated nuts?
So the idea of a compensated nut is that you set the saddle positions at the bridge to the FRETTED notes NEVER the open string.
E.g you compare the 2nd with the 14th or whatever.
After you have adjusted the saddle positions for the best compromise you then adjust the NUT to handle JUST the open strings.
Clearly there is no such thing of an adjustable nut where each string has a nut saddle.
You have to have a luthier make one which involves loads of trial an error and money no doubt!
As an experiment I took my Stingray and set the bridge saddle positions based on the tuned note on the 3rd and 12th.
BINGO all my intonation problems went away. All the fretted notes were bang on.
BUT damn, now the open strings (E & A) were 6 cent sharp.
Obviously this was a much better position compared with where I had started from. Better to have all the frets in tune and to suck up the open E and A being sharp?
I could find a luthier to cut me a custom made compensated nut with the grooves cut so that the E A length to bridge was longer .. making it flatter / lose the 6 cents sharp.
This would make the Stingray perfect. But I don't want to do that. The bass is super high end. Why should I?
My much cheaper Yamaha bass does NOT suffer this problem.
Out of desperation I removed my expensive great sounding La Bellas and installed a new set of the 'factory standard' Ernie Ball super slinky 40-100.
I re-setup the guitar.
All the intonation is perfect everywhere. Great ... but infuriating as I want to use regular gauge flatwounds.
[update 10/12/2023 - the intonation seems out again on the open strings]
After further research I have concluded:
I am very happy to now have a bass that plays in tune but very disappointed that I can never use the strings I want to use.
Superb if nerdy resources on this topic:
TLDR My bass is now intoned perfectly* ... but I can't use the strings I want. I believe the Stingray's compensated nut is a negative, not a positive.
(*- update from 10th Dec 2023. The issue seems present again even with the factory standard strings)
I learned a lot about intonation in the process of finding the solution, which I will share below.
In summary:
- I installed a new set of 45-105 La Bella Deep Talkin' flatwound strings
- Re setup the guitar (neck relief, action and bridge saddle intonation ie open note and fretted twelfth, witness points)
- To my dismay, the lower frets (1-7) were all significantly (7 cents on fret 3) flat on the E string.
- I posted on this forum for help: Stingray bass intonation issue with compensated nut
- I received many replies, many were well meaning but red herring questions about whether I done the basics ie was my tuner accurate, had I set 'the witness points', neck relief etc. Of course I had ..
I got sucked into a fascinating world ...
My summary of my new knowledge on intonation:
- If you never had to bend a string to fret it, then all the saddles would more or less be in a straight line on the bridge
- The scale length and fret spacings would just be about 'scale' maths.
- But you DO have to bend the strings down to fret the notes. Bending increases the tension in the string and therefore the pitch goes sharper than the fret spacings / scale length should determine
- Hence the different position of the saddles on the bridge after intonation. So this is why we have adjustable saddles.
- They allow the vibrating length of the string to be increased therefore to flatten the pitch to compensate for this sharpening (or the other way round).
- Wound thick strings go stiffer/sharper per mm compared with with non wound strings. So each string (meaning the E,A,D,G,B,E) stiffness reacts differently when being pressed down to the fret.
In other words one inch pressed down near the end creates significantly more stiffness than press the line one inch in the middle.
Translated to the guitar this means pressing down the string near the nut at the first fret raises the pitch sharper compared with the same at the twelfth fret.
The 'normal' way of alleviating this effect is to make sure that the nut slots are cut so that the string height above the first fret is low as possible.
This means the distance and hence increased stiffness/sharpness is dramatically reduced. Most skilled guitar techs can do this.
But wait, the Stringray has this 'compensated nut' which is not adjustable in ANY way.
So what's the deal about compensated nuts?
So the idea of a compensated nut is that you set the saddle positions at the bridge to the FRETTED notes NEVER the open string.
E.g you compare the 2nd with the 14th or whatever.
After you have adjusted the saddle positions for the best compromise you then adjust the NUT to handle JUST the open strings.
Clearly there is no such thing of an adjustable nut where each string has a nut saddle.
You have to have a luthier make one which involves loads of trial an error and money no doubt!
As an experiment I took my Stingray and set the bridge saddle positions based on the tuned note on the 3rd and 12th.
BINGO all my intonation problems went away. All the fretted notes were bang on.
BUT damn, now the open strings (E & A) were 6 cent sharp.
Obviously this was a much better position compared with where I had started from. Better to have all the frets in tune and to suck up the open E and A being sharp?
I could find a luthier to cut me a custom made compensated nut with the grooves cut so that the E A length to bridge was longer .. making it flatter / lose the 6 cents sharp.
This would make the Stingray perfect. But I don't want to do that. The bass is super high end. Why should I?
My much cheaper Yamaha bass does NOT suffer this problem.
Out of desperation I removed my expensive great sounding La Bellas and installed a new set of the 'factory standard' Ernie Ball super slinky 40-100.
I re-setup the guitar.
All the intonation is perfect everywhere. Great ... but infuriating as I want to use regular gauge flatwounds.
[update 10/12/2023 - the intonation seems out again on the open strings]
After further research I have concluded:
- Compensated nuts work great but they are optimised for a particular string gauge / type
- Regular nuts with correctly cut slots (ie deep enough to fix the sharp problem but not so deep as to create buzz) work as well and seem to work better for different gauges
I am very happy to now have a bass that plays in tune but very disappointed that I can never use the strings I want to use.
Superb if nerdy resources on this topic:
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. But seriously this is a real issue. Don't dismiss us. My Yamaha mid market bass intonates perfectly as can be with every brand of string I've used. This premium instrument should do the same.
