Axis SS trem returning sharp

[lchender]

Hi everyone. I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this. I just had my Axis SS setup by my tech and it plays awesome except for one thing. When I use the trem, the higher strings return sharp. As soon as I do a bend on that particular string, it will return to approximately correct pitch. This only happens on the high E, B and G strings. The other strings return in pitch. I'm pretty sure it's not binding in the nut because I had my tech check that and I even lubed up the nut to eliminate that possibility. I get this problem regardless of whether I set up the trem to float a little or to be flush with the body of the guitar. (BTW, I'm using D'Addario 10-46 on this guitar) What else could it be? Trem springs with dissimilar tension? Something with the saddles? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Jimi D]

The nut on an Axis leaves the factory cut for Ernie Ball Super Slinkys (.009-.042). If you increase the string gauge, you have to have a good tech widen the nut slots accordingly or you get binding of the string at the nut (which is why the high strings return sharp until you "pull" them back into position with a bend). Cutting a nut right is a real art form, and shouldn't be tried at home as a rule. You can order Axis SS nut blanks from EB/MM if you want to have your tech make up an entirely new nut, so you still have the one cut for .009s if you want to switch back...

 

[simplesimon]

I have found that powdered graphite, found at your local locksmith, or even a #2 pencil, in the nut slots usually will take care of binding. With the pencil, just get it good and sharp and color in the string slots on the nut. If you use the powdered graphite, please be careful, it will come out fats and plentiful and can cause quite a mess. I usually carry a pencil and a little 3in1 oil. those 2 together keep mine working smoothly.

 

[PurpleSport]

(Disclaimer: since my Axis is a hardtail, I have no real close-up experience with the EBMM trems so your mileage may vary...)

I have seen/had these kinds of problems on Fender-esque units - trem and non-trem - if the bridge saddle was somehow loose and/or wasn't set up correctly (i.e. leaning too much left or right thanks to one of those little height adjustment screws being a tad too high or low).

If nothing's hitching at the nut or where the string wraps around the tuner's post, definitely have a close look at the bridge whilst pressing down on the trem and see if anything's wobbling or sliding and that there's no micro-metalloid spurs or nicks gouged in the saddles that the string could be catching on. A splurt of the aforementioned graphite and/or oil on down there on the saddles of the affected strings won't hurt either.

Have you tried the old EVH trick of giving the trem a quick jerk upwards after pressing it down and seeing if the pitch goes back to normal? Sometimes when you do that, you'll hear a metallic "ping" where the snag is.

One other thing....any chance maybe the string just got twisted a bit along it's length when it was installed? Might explain why if it's happened all of a sudden and you've ruled all the above out, not to mention an easy "fix" - first try loosening it to work the tension out and observe how the strings react, maybe just tuning back up is all that's needed to shift the string into place in the trem block vs. doing an entire replacement of the plains.

Whatever it is, I think you should bust your tech's chops for returning the guitar to you in that condition...seems like a given that this kind of thing is what a basic setup should always cover, but then I've been spoiled by the work of some truly ace guys over the years...

 

[bing4sons]

Have you tried the old EVH trick of giving the trem a quick jerk upwards after pressing it

The vintage trem on the Super Sports only goes down (you can't pull up on it... We'll I guess you COULD, but that would not be good).

BTW, I sold this guitar to Leigh. I always had 9's on it and never had any issues, so Jimi's reply makes a lot of sense to me (along with the FAQs that say the nut slots need to be widened).

Bing

 

[jongitarz]

Jimi's reply is as usual spot on...you can open up the nut slots enough to accept 10-46 and still go back to 9-42 if you change your mind...One thing I would look for is to make sure the strings are not wrapped around the capstain...on the locking tuners you dont want a bunch of winds around it....when you dive bomb for instance, the wrapped string will lose tension, and when the bridge is returned to the resting position the string may not return to the same place creating a tuning problem.
Keep me posted...Jon

Props to Purple sport as well...You all know your stuff!!

 

[lchender]

Hey everybody, thanks for the replies. The guitar went to my tech today. It doesn't seem to be the nut slots as we did widen them when I switched to 10s. I also lubed the nut slots as well with graphite and no change. I don't have any wraps around the tuning capstans as that would defeat the purpose of the locking sperzels. When I strung the guitar, I just pulled the string through until it was tight, locked it and then tuned to pitch, which doesn't even leave one full wrap around the capstan. What's happening is that the guitar is tuning stable when I don't use the whammy. If it was binding in the nut, bends would pull it out of tune as well. I've experienced this many times with Les Pauls. When there is binding in the nut, any bending sends it out of tune. After I use the trem, the 3 unwound strings come back very sharp. As soon as I do a bend on each string, they shoot back in tune almost perfectly. Is that weird or what? It has to be catching somewhere between the nut and where the strings are strung through the trem mechanism. Hopefully my tech can figure this out. If all else fails, maybe someone at Ernie Ball will have an idea what's up.

 

[lchender]

Well, the guitar came back from the tech and it still has the same problem. The only thing we've established is that it is definitely NOT binding in the nut. So, it must be something with the trem mechanism or the saddles. Any suggestions what to do now? Thanks in advance.

 

[PurpleSport]

(Hmm...looks like my theory might be the one holding H20 after all here...)

What's the scoop on the trem spring tension since the string change? Anyone adjust it or was it left as is?

I know the trem itself is resting flush against the body, but am wondering if perhaps it's got more spring tension on the treble side than it should - maybe there's too much muscle going on there, or perhaps the bass side spring is pulled up a smidge too tight and it's overcompensating on the treble side.

Suggestion: try playing with the spring tension bit by bit, starting with the treble side first. You might wanna first put a tiny dot of liquid paper or colored nail polish on the top of the screws right where they join the body as a reference so you can keep track of how much you're turning. As with adjusting a truss rod, take note of what you're doing and experiment slowly and see if anything gets better or worse as you loosen and tighten and react accordingly.

I had a similiar sort of issue with my Fender Strat's trem when going down from 10s to 9s, but on the low strings. After I did a spring adjustment as above, the trem claw looks a little cockeyed now, but it stays in tune!

 

[lchender]

Thanks PurpleSport. I'll try adjusting the trem claw. I did notice that the treble side of the bridge is perfectly flush and the bass side is ever so slightly floating. When I bumped up to 10s, the whole bridge was floating quite severely and my tech tightened the trem claw considerably to compensate for it. This is super frustrating because the guitar plays and sounds awesome. It's not even that I'm a big dive-bomber, but it annoys me that I can't get it to stay in tune! I'll keep you posted. Thanks everyone.

 

[ex3.8]

Thanks PurpleSport. I'll try adjusting the trem claw. I did notice that the treble side of the bridge is perfectly flush and the bass side is ever so slightly floating. When I bumped up to 10s, the whole bridge was floating quite severely and my tech tightened the trem claw considerably to compensate for it. This is super frustrating because the guitar plays and sounds awesome. It's not even that I'm a big dive-bomber, but it annoys me that I can't get it to stay in tune! I'll keep you posted. Thanks everyone.

I feel your pain. I have the same problem with my silo.
I gess it comforts me that i am not the only one.
I use vasoline and grafite mix on the nut but it still goes outta tune. so i use the trem at the end of a song and
puttee wee wee wee weeeeeeyeyeyeyeye wonnnnnnnn
a la EVH. and retune before the next cut LOL!

BTW I like the spring theory i will experiment...

 

[lchender]

Well, I tried messing with the trem claw and making just the treble side tighter or looser, etc. No dice. The treble side of the trem seems to have significantly more tension on it no matter how much I loosen it. Very weird. Regardless of how I set up the trem claw, the treble strings still come back sharp the same amount. How annoying! Maybe the bass side trem spring has lost its tension through wear and tear? Or something else?

 

[Daggo]

Have you ensured that the neck bolts are screwed in tight and that the truss rod is not too loose? EBMM necks are normally screwed in nice and tight, but I would check to make sure.

After years of struggling with a similar problem on my strat, I discovered that a couple of the neck bolts were loose. It didn't totally cure my similar tuning problem (the G still comes back a bit sharp after a dive, but only a few cents or so), but it did help.

You might also try chording the open strings and bending them up slightly as you dive on the lower strings. This can help them stay in tune as you dive down. This works great on my strat.

Daggo

 

[lchender]

Nope, neck bolts are tight. Also, the guitar has been professionally set up and the truss rod is definitely not too loose. Thanks for the suggestions, though. Hmm, maybe it's time to give Music Man a call.

 

[PurpleSport]

Well, I tried messing with the trem claw and making just the treble side tighter or looser, etc. No dice. The treble side of the trem seems to have significantly more tension on it no matter how much I loosen it. Very weird. Regardless of how I set up the trem claw, the treble strings still come back sharp the same amount. How annoying! Maybe the bass side trem spring has lost its tension through wear and tear? Or something else?

Hmm....considering all the above as a potential theory (even though I don't necessarily think it's the cause)...how about swapping the trem springs around?

Stick the potentially looser bass one on the treble side, and vice versa. Then if that doesn't work, try sticking the middle one in place of the other ones - perhaps you do indeed have one with less tension than the others....who knows, might work if your theory is correct (and you know your guitar better than I ever will)!

Sometimes the least obvious solution is the one right in front of you. Won't hurt to give it a try...

 

[benson]

Me too!

I know this is an old thread but I've got an identical problem, also running 10-46's. I've lubed the nut and and am using three springs in an arrow formation but try as I might the B and G strings are still returning sharp after reasonably heavy trem use. This is regardless of the trem set to flat or set flush and its a new setup with properly stretched strings.

Anyone know if LCHENDER resolved his problem ?

Thanks,
Tony

 

[Fusionman]

I had a similar problem on my Sport. I use 10s and I had a trem issue in which the gtr would always come back to pitch flat and I had to actually "re-set" the trem by making sure it was fully coming up flush to the top. Usually, I would just slightly press the bridge down to the top.

I know someone will give me problems with this but I NEVER liked the stock nut on this gtr. My g string never rang open tonally very well and no amount of nut filing ever helped so recently I had my trusted gtr tech replace it w/a Tusq nut plus he torqed up on the trem screws a little bit and voila, no issues w/the trem returning in tune. It is a little stiffer than it was but operates perfectly. Im not a big trem player anyway and if need to do that I have a double locking system on another gtr.

I agree that these gtrs are really designed and come stock w/9s so if you do want to use 10s you need to have a tech open the slots a bit or just replace the nut altogether. IMHO, there are better aftermarket nut materials out there.

 

[benson]

I had a similar problem on my Sport. I use 10s and I had a trem issue in which the gtr would always come back to pitch flat and I had to actually "re-set" the trem by making sure it was fully coming up flush to the top. Usually, I would just slightly press the bridge down to the top.

I know someone will give me problems with this but I NEVER liked the stock nut on this gtr. My g string never rang open tonally very well and no amount of nut filing ever helped so recently I had my trusted gtr tech replace it w/a Tusq nut plus he torqed up on the trem screws a little bit and voila, no issues w/the trem returning in tune. It is a little stiffer than it was but operates perfectly. Im not a big trem player anyway and if need to do that I have a double locking system on another gtr.

I agree that these gtrs are really designed and come stock w/9s so if you do want to use 10s you need to have a tech open the slots a bit or just replace the nut altogether. IMHO, there are better aftermarket nut materials out there.

Well, the next stop is to get an Earvana compensated nut fitted. I can do most setup tasks but I think I'll get a pro to fit it. I managed to fit one to my Variax, which was a success, but its not the prettiest of installations and I can't bring myself to take a file this gorgeous slab of birdseye maple

 

[Bazaboy]

I've got that problem on my ASS & one of my Sports, but my low E and G strings go sharp. I know that it's the nut & not the trem because I'm using GHS Boomer 10.5's. Graphite seems to help a bit, but a trip to my luthier is in their post-holiday future. My other Sport has a Trem-Nut and it doesn't have any problems, so you might consider going Graph Tech. I just can't go back to 9's & am seriously considering moving up to 11's. I started off playing 8's 20 years ago. Now I understand why my grandfather had 13's on his Les Paul Custom (now mine). Those teeny strings just don't sound as good IMHO.

 

[benson]

I've got that problem on my ASS & one of my Sports, but my low E and G strings go sharp. I know that it's the nut & not the trem because I'm using GHS Boomer 10.5's. Graphite seems to help a bit, but a trip to my luthier is in their post-holiday future. My other Sport has a Trem-Nut and it doesn't have any problems, so you might consider going Graph Tech. I just can't go back to 9's & am seriously considering moving up to 11's. I started off playing 8's 20 years ago. Now I understand why my grandfather had 13's on his Les Paul Custom (now mine). Those teeny strings just don't sound as good IMHO.

I'm a fairly recent convert to 10's and will never go back again ... I have my Axis SS and a couple of PRS guitars with them on and it real helps playability and tone. That said, I'm still running lightweight 9-42's on my floyd rose equiped guitars.