Marketing ? for BP

[oddjob]

I was wondering what you thought of Peavey's new (well not quite new) idea for marketing some of their mid/high end instruments in places like Nieman Marcus? They are doing it with the John Taylor sig bass and the guitar off shots. I have my own opinion but was curious as to what you thought about a move like this.

 

[GHWelles]

EBMM at Saks and Nordstroms?

 

[Big Poppa]

Oddjob....WOw

This is going to be more than you asked for....

First you have to look at the existing retail distribution network. The core is Mom and Pop stores, medium sized independent chains and Guitar Center. The question is "Is the existing distribution network sufficient to fufill the demand and interest for the guitar? NO. The market tells you this. This is why Costco, Smith and Hawken,Target, Walmart, Bed Bath and Beyond, etc are selling guitars. These are not based on any special feeling for the guitar ...its business. They see demand that isnt fufilled and Margin available. If they are a catalog they look at marging return per inch and in reatail they look at return per square foot. I keep adressing our industry and telling them dont get pissed that costco is selling guitars listen to their mesage...we are underserving the demand. If our network was totally effective the guitar would hold no interest to the big box and they would turn their attention to power washers or wine coolers.

If the bottom segment of the market is underserved then what about the high end?
I think so. Enter Neiman Marcus...They cant sell a piece of crap so they look for something that they can sell that fits their demographic. They get an aging rocker that their customers are familiar or who is even "edgy" (not to any of us) coupled with an american brand and they through the magic of cobranding and co marketing can get some of that guitar margin.

Peavey is a decent instrument. Not a first call line, IMHO. This would be hard to do if they had a presence in GC or anywhere else. So why not?

From a manufacturers standpoint it is really hard to get dealers to pay attention too you. Especially if you are trying to build a product that is outside of the space they have alloted for you in thier brain and on the floor. Our guitars are a great example...Ive spent twenty years beating my head against bricks and mortar to support our efforts in guitar building....if I had a dollar for every time that I heard "we can sell your basses, nobody cares about the guitars" I would be posting from the south of France. PErsistance and the worlds best selling electric gutikar string enabled us to slug it out. As you know it is not a battle won.....Its still easier to find a stingray thatn a Jp.

The question is if being in Neiman Marcus hurts or expands Peaveys cred...time will tell but in the mean time Peavey got to be in what is always the most popular catalog, they made some money for both the artist and themselves and put 1,000 bases in the hands of people who wouldnt normally buy a peavey. My cynical take on the Neiman customer is this bass is the gift to get the rich guy who has everything and probably is in the closet in aspen waiting for a guest to come over for some chardonnay and trophy viewing.

Would I have done it? No. Would I emabrk on a non traditional co branding and comarketing project that encompassed a favored artist and high end distribution...you betcha...could I do it? Probably not because of the pressure I would get from my traditional network of dealers.

Other recent expamples of this stuf is the VW campaign that was cool but lacked credibility. Lukes father in law is a car dealer and one of the lines he sells is VW and he said it did not sell cars but strengthened the brands awareness as cool.

 

[tadawson]

I was wondering what you thought of Peavey's new (well not quite new) idea for marketing some of their mid/high end instruments in places like Nieman Marcus? They are doing it with the John Taylor sig bass and the guitar off shots. I have my own opinion but was curious as to what you thought about a move like this.

"Needless Markup"? . . . That's an odd choice for a pretty low end product like Peavy . . . .

- Tim

 

[fogman]

if I had a dollar for every time that I heard "we can sell your basses, nobody cares about the guitars" I would be posting from the south of France. PErsistance and the worlds best selling electric gutikar string enabled us to slug it out. As you know it is not a battle won.....Its still easier to find a stingray thatn a Jp.

I don't have your financial records, but if the forum is any indication; I'd say teh 6 stringers are moving up!!!!

 

[silverburst]

BTW. Being a big John Taylor fan, I bought one of the Peavey John Taylor basses from NM. I am a collector with a boatload of nice stuff, and thought it would be a nice addition.

I was wrong. It was a poor experience, at best. NM knew none of the specs for the bass (they pronounce it like the fish, not the musical instrument), and the shipping and follow-up was a nightmare. It was a many month wait to get #29 of 100. Out of the hundreds of basses and guitar I have owned, this was my first (and probably last) Peavey.

The bigger disappointment was when I took it out of the case and saw that it was an adequate bass, but by no means a good bass. The ebony fretboard appeared to be painted and the frets were not level or well finished. It sounded ok, but then again, a Mexican P bass sounds ok too. Strangely, it had the EBMM type of trussrod adjustment wheel.

The case and accessories were cool, and definitely the high point of the package.

Anyway, I ended up selling it to a girl in Ohio who is the biggest JT fan on the planet.

NM should stay out of the guitar business, and yet another lesson learned for me.

 

[Big Poppa]

Peavey ripped off our truss rod design thats why it is similar.

Peavey made its living selling independents and telling them to stick with him and now he is in Neiman Marcus, Musicians Friend and Guitar Center......HMMMMMMMM...

 

[Disquieter]

Peavey ripped off our truss rod design thats why it is similar.

I just restrung and setup a short scale 60's harmony bass with the wheel trussrod design.

Does EBMM hold a current patent on this design or are they just the most prevalent user?

 

[oddjob]

BP, thanks for the answer (I truly appreciate you response). I, also, am a huge Taylor fan and actually checked out one of the basses. The novelty of it was nice but the bass is no where even close to the quality of my Bongos.

Ever since I started hanging out here I have always been curious about the business models that are employed by bass manufactures and sellers (thus my curiosity about this). It is a very interesting and evolving dynamic. I mean I think we have all seen the 100-200 dollar guitars and basses at the Walmart type stores but I never envisioned a 1299.99 bass at Neimans (even if it is just for a select run) - it makes sense in a strange way... I just never saw it coming.

I look at what have happened to the record industry with the advent of downloadable mp3s and I realize that business models have to evolve and change with the times - and why should basses be any different - it will be very interesting to see how this plays out over the coming years.

 

[todd4ta]

I mean I think we have all seen the 100-200 dollar guitars and basses at the Walmart type stores but I never envisioned a 1299.99 bass at Neimans (even if it is just for a select run) - it makes sense in a strange way... I just never saw it coming.

For many N-M shoppers, adding an extra '0' or '00' onto the price of an everyday item probably isn't a big deal. Maybe that makes a little more sense. I agree that it's more of a novelty gift item than a musical instrument.

My wife is a huge JT fan. I'm her second favorite bass player (and it's a distant second)

 

[Moondog]

My wife is a huge JT fan. I'm her second favorite bass player (and it's a distant second)

Sounds familiar, but I'm behind Sting . . .

 

[Musicman Nut]

Peavey ripped off our truss rod design thats why it is similar.

Peavey made its living selling independents and telling them to stick with him and now he is in Neiman Marcus, Musicians Friend and Guitar Center......HMMMMMMMM...

I can Vouch for this, Peavey Stold Ernie Balls Truss Rod design PLUS The Eddie Van Halen Sig Guitar Peavey Built was a TOTAL RIP OFF OF EVH Ernie Ball Guitar, Peavey could of at least come up with their own design on that deal.

Next time your all at Namm, Look at how many people Have copied the Ernie Ball Music Man truss Rod design, I can count 15.
Anyway EB Rocks and still the best Instrument on the face of the earth.

 

[Musicman Nut]

Oddjob....WOw

This is going to be more than you asked for....

First you have to look at the existing retail distribution network. The core is Mom and Pop stores, medium sized independent chains and Guitar Center. The question is "Is the existing distribution network sufficient to fufill the demand and interest for the guitar? NO. The market tells you this. This is why Costco, Smith and Hawken,Target, Walmart, Bed Bath and Beyond, etc are selling guitars. These are not based on any special feeling for the guitar ...its business. They see demand that isnt fufilled and Margin available. If they are a catalog they look at marging return per inch and in reatail they look at return per square foot. I keep adressing our industry and telling them dont get pissed that costco is selling guitars listen to their mesage...we are underserving the demand. If our network was totally effective the guitar would hold no interest to the big box and they would turn their attention to power washers or wine coolers.

If the bottom segment of the market is underserved then what about the high end?
I think so. Enter Neiman Marcus...They cant sell a piece of crap so they look for something that they can sell that fits their demographic. They get an aging rocker that their customers are familiar or who is even "edgy" (not to any of us) coupled with an american brand and they through the magic of cobranding and co marketing can get some of that guitar margin.

Peavey is a decent instrument. Not a first call line, IMHO. This would be hard to do if they had a presence in GC or anywhere else. So why not?

From a manufacturers standpoint it is really hard to get dealers to pay attention too you. Especially if you are trying to build a product that is outside of the space they have alloted for you in thier brain and on the floor. Our guitars are a great example...Ive spent twenty years beating my head against bricks and mortar to support our efforts in guitar building....if I had a dollar for every time that I heard "we can sell your basses, nobody cares about the guitars" I would be posting from the south of France. PErsistance and the worlds best selling electric gutikar string enabled us to slug it out. As you know it is not a battle won.....Its still easier to find a stingray thatn a Jp.

The question is if being in Neiman Marcus hurts or expands Peaveys cred...time will tell but in the mean time Peavey got to be in what is always the most popular catalog, they made some money for both the artist and themselves and put 1,000 bases in the hands of people who wouldnt normally buy a peavey. My cynical take on the Neiman customer is this bass is the gift to get the rich guy who has everything and probably is in the closet in aspen waiting for a guest to come over for some chardonnay and trophy viewing.

Would I have done it? No. Would I emabrk on a non traditional co branding and comarketing project that encompassed a favored artist and high end distribution...you betcha...could I do it? Probably not because of the pressure I would get from my traditional network of dealers.

Other recent expamples of this stuf is the VW campaign that was cool but lacked credibility. Lukes father in law is a car dealer and one of the lines he sells is VW and he said it did not sell cars but strengthened the brands awareness as cool.

On the guitar Selling issue, this has been my experience, I have this guitar Player in my own Band who owns 20 Tele's and maybe 10 Strats, He new Played an Ernie Ball GUITAR ever. His remark to me was ( are they any Good ) So I lent him my Albert Lee and now he owns a few of his own and shop talking he brags more about his Ernie Balls then he does his Fenders.

My Point is and I'm guilty as well, Don't be narrow minded and you'll be blown away with sound feel & quality.
Everybody is scared to venture out. DON'T BE.

 

[oddjob]

My Point is and I'm guilty as well, Don't be narrow minded and you'll be blown away with sound feel & quality.
Everybody is scared to venture out. DON'T BE.

Amen to that (now if I could just convince my guitar player)

 

[Big Poppa]

Joel The wheel was on teisco del reys and some low end stuff in the sixties but is designed completely different and the wheels on those are auite small with no teflon and a few other secrets.

 

[Jim_F]

I see this being about brand awareness -
Fender and Gibson still have got that major brand presence in the 6 string market.
There are plenty of other guitar manufacturers out there who produce guitars that are as good (if not better) ... EB Musicman being one of many ... Ibanez, PRS etc. - however there is that historical association for a lot of musicians with the Eric Clapton strats, Slash Les Pauls, Angus Young SGs etc. Plenty of players buy their guitars because they like the tone of their heroes ...
MusicMan have got this brand awareness in the 4 string / bass market - I see a lot more bass players playing MM basses in concert than I see guitar players playing Musicman 6 strings ...
As someone has already said - don't be narrow minded.

Not very impressed with the John Taylor Peavey Liberator bass .... decent bass, yes ... decent build quality .... Ok .... but not worth $1300.
I have an Aria SB1000 JT reissue bass from a couple of years ago - in a completely different league regarding quality.

 

[Big Poppa]

Fender and Gibson have earned thier place. They were there since the beginning and the historic stuff was played on G's and F's. Just like Slinky's From the Beatles to Zep to clapton page stones ac dc and on all with our strings so I can appreciate the revered spot as we benefit on the accessory side.

 

[EBMM7181]

I too notice that while watching the music channels on TV, and the late nite shows, Leno,Conan,Letterman... ect, I see very few guitarists that use an EBMM guitar, while its quite frequent to see a StingRay. But I'm just happy I'm not one of those people who play what everyone else plays. I play what I like, and what I think sounds the best. None of my favorite bassists use a EBMM, one of them used to, thats why he's in my avatar with a stingray =)

I started off playing on my fathers old Fender P Bass, a '71 I think, he bought it when he was 15 or something, but anyways, when It came time for me to buy my own bass, I went into the music store, sat down, played everything, and nothing beat the look, feel, and playability of a EBMM stingray.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I too was a dyed in the wool Gibson / Tele man, but caught the EB bug late in life.

I wish I had had the "balls" to switch over a lot sooner.
IMO the AL is one of the finest out there!

It will take EB a long time to have EB guitars in every major shop but with the quality of their products I'm sure that time will come.

 

[Big Poppa]

It is not possible to be in all major shops of the world and not compromise quality and service. Sometimes you have to ignore that traditional pressure and keep forcused on your model. WE can't be the biggest but we can deliver a super high quality ergonomically sound instrument at a fair price and back each and every one of them up. That's OK in my book