100 watts - 50 watts ??

[Polaris]

Hey everyone, I have a quick question here...

I have a 100 watt valve head (Laney VH100R) and want to downgrade to a 50 watt head (GH50L) but am wondering about the loss of volume here? I never ran my 100 watter past 4 (am running it through a 400w cab) and I reckon if I crank the GH50 I can get the same volume. Does anyone agree/disagree?

Lovely amps, and the perfect combination with my Axis SS!!

Pictures of me bands last gig and a few clips can be seen here:
http://www.cambiandawn.co.uk
http://www.myspace.com/cambian0dawn

Thanks a lot!

(Many, many apologies if this is in the wrong forum!)

 

[robelinda2]

hey thats funny i sold my VH100R a few months ago cos it was just too loud, and i got an awful sound with it at low volumes, very noisy amp! Bought a Fender Deville 4x10 as a replacement.

 

[Polaris]

Yeah, it's complete rubbish that these amps give a good sound at low volumes! They really do come into their own when cranked though. This is why I want the 50 watter - I want this amp cranked every time!

Another thing is the stock valves - I replaced mine with Electro Harmonix EL34's and the sound difference/quality was amazing.

 

[tommyindelaware]

side by side.....runnin full power.....u would experience a 10-15 % drop in volume...............even though the wattage is half.
volume increase is NOT linier w/ wattage increase.

 

[Polaris]

Hey thanks for that Tommy!

...any chance of hearing some of that renegade redneck hillbilly geetar playin'?

I like the sound of that!

 

[Dodgeball]

Hey i feel i can really contribute to this thread

I own a GH50L that has been my main amp for about 3 years now and I love it with Groove Tubes E34L's but it is still TOO LOUD! I have never got it past 8 and that was when I had it in a completely different room so I could record with it cranked...sounded like an airstrike was happening (in a good way).

I also borrowed a VH100R when mine was getting a service and I agree it is very noisy and crap sounding at low volumes, the GH50L sounds much better at low volume and is no where near as noisy.

Tommy is right tho. The output rating basically just denotes how much clean headroom you have to play with. The 50Watter will "break up" much earlier on the master volume than the 100Watter but the overall volume won't be that noticably lower.

Hope that helps, good luck with the amp it's a real cracker. Very underrated.

 

[Polaris]

Cheers for that Dodgeball - it's good to hear it first hand. It's a tough amp to find in retail shops so I had a butchers at Harmony Central and there are about a billion reviews that all say "DudE dIS amP is Sweeeeeet"! Not very helpful to say the least!

Knowing it's a little less noisy than the VH100 is a comfort - that thing hisses like a 20ft anacona when it's cranked!

Anyway, your comments are greatly appreciated!

I stuck a pair of BKP Warpigs in me axe a while ago so I'll post some piccies up when I can!

Thanks again guys!

 

[robelinda2]

used to bug the crap out of me at gigs when people would be looking around trying to see where the "noise" was coming from, plus i was using a strat too with typical noisy strat pickups, it was hell!!!

not regretting the VH100R sale one bit

 

[Spudmurphy]

My Marshall has a switch that converts it from a 50 watt to a 25 watt - and boy the 25 watts is loud!!

 

[Big Mike]

50 watts is NOT half as loud as 100 watter FYI.

What you'll get, is headroom loss, allowing it to distort sooner.

My main amp is now 18 watts, and that comes across as loud as my former 30 watt amp. But I can get the goods sooner.

 

[candid_x]

Love my Laney 50 watt amps (more classic rock and spongy sounding than the GH series amps), and the tone at lower volumes is still very good, though it doesn't reach that magic sweet spot until the master is cranked almost half way. It's also very quiet until really pushed.

I agree with all that's been said here about volume vs. head room et al. When my kid bought his Marshall DSL100 I tried to convince him to go for the 50, but you know how it is, he had to have the full meal deal. Now he regrets it.

 

[Jimmyb]

Just my tuppence worth.

I think nowadays (especially in the UK with the new Noise Regs due to hit) It can be better to get a lower wattage amp, but to drive it harder in order to get 'that' sound.

As it's also been stated, the volume difference between a 100w and 50w amp is not great and for most situations, you'd probably not need to go anywhere near the max of the amp anyway. If you did find yourself in a situation where you needed very high volume levels, you'd be better off mic'ing whatever you had and running it through the PA.

It certainly looks impressive to have a stonking great 4x12" cabinet on stage, but I don't know if it's all that good for the ears anymore. Plus, less space taken up by amps = more space for beer and guitars!!!

 

[blackspy]

I'm pretty sure 100 watts vs. 50 watts amounts to about a 3-4 db loss of volume, depending on speaker cab and whatnot. If you've never had the 100 watter past 4, you'll probably never have the 50 watt past 5 or 6. It'll still be 'rip your face off' loud.

 

[Jimmyb]

I'm pretty sure 100 watts vs. 50 watts amounts to about a 3-4 db loss of volume, depending on speaker cab and whatnot. If you've never had the 100 watter past 4, you'll probably never have the 50 watt past 5 or 6. It'll still be 'rip your face off' loud.

I think that a doubling in power equates to a 6dB increase in sound pressure level. It's different from electrical power which is a 3dB increase.

Blackspy is right though. It's still gonna be loud!! My 30w Marshall never goes past 6 and I'm not that quiet (although given my ability, I should really have it switched off!)

 

[hal9000]

All things being equal, 50 W is 3 dB quieter than 100 W, which is still ridiculously loud through good speakers. Remember, the definition of sensitivity of a speaker is based on 1 watt input measured 1 meter away. A Celestion Vintage 30 produces 100 dB SPL @ 1 W, 1 meter. 1 dB is defined as the minimum change in power that a human can discern. 3 dB is what I like to use for a solo boost.

"Half" as loud as a 100 W amp is actually 10 W, (all things being equal) as defined by Bell Labs back in the day. That's -10 dB in case you're wondering.

 

[rrhea]

Spend the money on a speaker emulator/attentuator that you were planning on spending for a new amp and you'll be able to crank away without all the volume.

This product is supposed to be better than anything else on the market... haven't tried one yet... but I want to!

http://www.motherloadusa.com/motherload-load-box-directbox-home.asp

Ryan

 

[lenny]

i have a TSL60 and i never have it above 4 and i still get nice warm tones, i always say no more than 60 watt tube amps for moderate gigging now if were playing stadiums thats different ,we might do a 3000-4000 person gig once a year at what we call a "beer garden" and then i am thankful i have the TSL60 with the 4x12

 

[blackspy]

"beer garden"

I see that all over NS. What is it exactly?

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

Why not pull out 2 of the output valves, and bingo - you have a 50 watt amp. You have to pull out either the outer two, or the inner two.

 

[beej]

Great suggestion Tim- that works on most amps! Just remember to watch your speaker impedence- it'll change (by a factor of 2 I think).