2-band EQ cut/boost treble?

[DJBenzBass]

I have been reading different opinions on the Treble knob of the 2-band EQ. Some people say it is "boost only", like the bass knob, but most say it's a "cut/boost". Even musicmanbass.org has it listed as a cut/boost.
I tried centering the treble knob last night, then slightly turning it each way, and it did appear to be a cut/boost, but I can't be 100% positive. There is nothing about the 2-band EQ in the FAQ's either.

Can anyone say for sure? Thanks!

 

[five7]

Always sounded like boost only to me. With no detent how can you find the center?

 

[oli@bass]

To me the 2EQ with the treble turned down sounds like treble cut compared to a 3EQ with the treble in the center detent.

 

[spencer]

Adjust to your liking. If you plug your bass into a computer and analize the freq it puts out, it's nowhere near flat even if your bass is set flat.

 

[Tom F]

Good information in this thread - looks like the bass is essentially boost only, and the treble is boost/cut. Makes sense based on my 2-Band.

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-basses/20742-2-band-eq-stingrays-2.html#post293534

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Then why wouldn't there be a centre detent on the treble control?

 

[the unrepentant]

The 2 band EQ is boost only.

Adjust to your liking. If you plug your bass into a computer and analize the freq it puts out, it's nowhere near flat even if your bass is set flat.

well it's not going to put out all frequencies equally... that would be white noise...

 

[oli@bass]

ok, short vote, who of those who share their knowledge have both types of preamps available to compare?

 

[Hellboy]

The 2 band EQ is boost only.


well it's not going to put out all frequencies equally... that would be white noise...

This has been discussed before and I wrote the following at that time regarding the pre EB 2-band Stingrays:

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-basses/41187-eliminating-trebley-clicking-sound-my-amp-4.html#post668427

Big Poppa stated earlier in that thread that it´s boost only but I think that he´s wrong regarding that.

THe two band StingRay is boost only. The three band is cut and boost. I know because it is one of the first things I commissioned when we bought the company.

A boost only treble eq is not a very good idea since you add noise when boosting too much. A cut only treble would make much more sense but, as mentioned earlier, even musicmanbass.org says that the two-band, at least the pre EB ones, are cut/boost treble. I don´t know about the resent ones but it would actually surprise me if they are different than the old original ones in that aspect. Wouldn´t make much sense.

//J

 

[MrMusashi]

jan, i dont know why you question the information from someone who has firsthand knowledge... and i am norwegian.. your neighbor and thus a bit biased towards home

why do you think it changed when eb took over?

MrM

 

[five7]

I have had both. 2 band = boost only.

 

[DJBenzBass]

Always sounded like boost only to me. With no detent how can you find the center?

I have only owned a 3 band NAMM Stingray & and an SR5 HH, so this is my first experience with a 2 band Stingray.
I removed the chrome knob from the treble, turned it to 100%, then put a straight vertical pencil line on the shaft. I marked where the line touched the knob cover with the pencil, then turned the shaft to 0%. Marked where the line touched the knob cover. That left a space about ¼" wide between the 2 marks. I marked the center of that space, then turned the knob about 170 degrees clockwise to let the other side of the straight line on the shaft touch that center mark I made. I then put the knob back on, with the knob screw right over that center mark (facing up, so I can see it while playing)
Probably the least technical way, but I got it approximately centered. Works well for me as a center starting point IF the treble is a cut/boost. It certainly acts that way now that I have an estimated center. I'm still looking forward to hearing all other opinions on this topic.

 

[MrMusashi]

what if its a logaritmic potmeter?

MrM

 

[Hellboy]

jan, i dont know why you question the information from someone who has firsthand knowledge... and i am norwegian.. your neighbor and thus a bit biased towards home

why do you think it changed when eb took over?

MrM

Well that must be because I´m obnoxious.

I´m really only talking about the pre EB 2-band preamps and I had a -76 Stingray for quite some time. I´m pretty darn sure that it had a cut/boost treble. I have no knollage if that was changed when EB took over. Boost only treble controls are not very common and you very rarely (if ever) find them on amps or sound consoles and there is a perfectly logical reason for this. It´s very hard (and costly) to make a quiet eq. Even the eq on the SSL console I have in the studio ads noise if you boost the treble too much. To boost the treble frequencies from 0 dB only is most often not a very good idea. Boosting the bass frequencies is not the same thing since hf noise isn´t a problem.

Would be good fun to get a proper answer regarding this. I´m quite sure that the pre EB instruments had boost only bass and cut/boost treble.

//J

 

[Nounouk]

Copy/paste from a post i read 2 years ago here... Sorry, don't know who posted this.

Earlier this year I lent John East, of J-Retro, a spare 2-band that I have. he ran it through his test rig and posted the following on the Pit.

Quote:Let me explain the whole deal, as there have been various questions about the MM preamps, and what they do as regards boost and cut on each band. Well I can tell you for sure:

* The MM treble is boost and cut.

* The actual circuit of the MM bass is boost only, but there is a twist.

* The way the circuit is configured has been done in such a way that there is bass cut when the bass is fully backed off.

* So in other words, even though the MM bass control circuit is boost only, due to the bass cut configuration through the pre, it wll have the feeling as if boosting and cutting the bass, very neat in fact!

 

[Hellboy]

Copy/paste from a post i read 2 years ago here... Sorry, don't know who posted this.

Earlier this year I lent John East, of J-Retro, a spare 2-band that I have. he ran it through his test rig and posted the following on the Pit.

Quote:Let me explain the whole deal, as there have been various questions about the MM preamps, and what they do as regards boost and cut on each band. Well I can tell you for sure:

* The MM treble is boost and cut.

* The actual circuit of the MM bass is boost only, but there is a twist.

* The way the circuit is configured has been done in such a way that there is bass cut when the bass is fully backed off.

* So in other words, even though the MM bass control circuit is boost only, due to the bass cut configuration through the pre, it wll have the feeling as if boosting and cutting the bass, very neat in fact!

Interesting. Again, this is how I remember the preamp on my old -76 Ray but I did not know that the bass control had a slight cut too. I can´t verify that. But I´m pretty darn sure that the treble is cut/boost. And if it´s the same with EB Musicman 2-band pre´s, I would not know since I´ve never actually played one. I don´t know if the bass that John East tested was a pre or post EB bass but that guy usually knows what he´s talking about. Would be great if someone from EB could straighten this out once and for all.

//J

 

[DJBenzBass]

After a bit of time testing last night with a flat EQ headphone amp and headphones, perhaps it is only a "slight cut/bigger boost". Seems like turning the knob to approximately 25% was the center. "25% cut/75% boost" That's where the biggest difference was. Moving it left and right from there slowly made the most noticable boost & cut difference.
I could still be 100% wrong, but this is still fun.

 

[the unrepentant]

in fairness, i never cut the treble, it's usually boosted quite a lot, so a cut only treble would really irritate me, and it's not really THAT noisy, especially once it's in the mix. Only the important frequencies cut through, a tiny bit of mains hum or hiss isn't really a problem, when the actual bass sound is so much louder. With regards to recording, there's always a certain amount of background noise, be it from the microphones or the mixer or whatever, it's unavoidable, but if you keep the level above the noise threshold, you can't hear it. Bit of an analogy there for you. (for hellboy mainly)

 

[five7]

+1

 

[Hellboy]

in fairness, i never cut the treble, it's usually boosted quite a lot, so a cut only treble would really irritate me, and it's not really THAT noisy, especially once it's in the mix. Only the important frequencies cut through, a tiny bit of mains hum or hiss isn't really a problem, when the actual bass sound is so much louder. With regards to recording, there's always a certain amount of background noise, be it from the microphones or the mixer or whatever, it's unavoidable, but if you keep the level above the noise threshold, you can't hear it. Bit of an analogy there for you. (for hellboy mainly)

It all depends on what kind of music you record or play. Sure, it´s not a problem when doing pop/rock stuff but I´ve recorded some music where noise has been a problem.

Anyway, would be interesting to get a answer from someone who really knows how the 2-band eq is constructed. Lots of speculations going on. I´m rather sure that the preamp on my old Stingray had cut/boost treble but I can be wrong. And, again, a boost only treble isn´t the most common thing on the market.

//J