- Thread starter Tung
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Roubster
Well-known member
Depends on the model. But yes, 250K will be darker sounding. 250K pots are used on the Silhouettes as well as on the Morse model. The JP uses 500K pots. Its a personal preferance of course. I like the 500K pots because it gives you a greater range, and I like to use the tone pot to turn down the highs if I need to. I dont know why people dont use the tone pot...but its a great tool to control your tone right from the guitar.
Coffeemug
Well-known member
The 250k are also used on the Albert Lee.
I use the tone control ALL the time, especially when i'm doing jazz gigs, it's not only necessary, but a must to get a nice warm jazz tone. Even for high gain, when the treble gets too much, the tone pot can cut a bit right on the spot.
So, 250k really is for if you want a darker tone on a bright guitar?
Four Eyes
Active member
In my opinion yes and no...
Yes in the sense that the 250k pot will not let as much of the high-end through. But I think that might hamper the overall tone of some humbuckers. Case-in-point; and this is just my opinion, a pickup like the Duncan JB which is my personal favorite didn't sound as full and open when I used it with 250k pots vs. 500k pots. I've always been of the opinion that it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. That's why I love using 500k pots and just roll down the tone control when need be.
I hope that makes some kind of sense...lol
It does totally. my tech told me the same thing, that for humbuckers it's better to go with 500k, especially dual humbuckers guitars.
B2D
Well-known member
When I first went from 250k to 500k in my silhouette, I noticed more output and high-end response. The guitar also gained a tighter feel overall. I liked the change and kept it. I have subsequently learned that I prefer 500k pots with guitars that have darker or high-output humbuckers, and 250k pots with brighter humbuckers and all single coils.
nobozos
Well-known member
I believe the theory that some people subscribe to is that a tone pot cannot add anything to the tone of your pickup, only take it away. Technically, this statement is correct. A normal tone knob will take the natural frequency output of a pickup, and remove the highs from it. A TBX tone control will do the same thing from 5 to 0, and from and will remove the lows from 5 to 10.
Some believe that simply the addition of the tone pot in the circuit will choke the natural frequency output of the pickup, even with the pot on 10.
I guess the real test would be for someone with an Axis hardtail, and an ASS hardtail to A/B them on the same rig with the same settings on the bridge pickup, with the tone on the ASS set to 10. If there is a distinguishable difference in tone, I would say the arguement may hold water.
I've never found a tone knob to be particularly useful for me, unless it's a TBX tone control. On the one strat I had, I usually ran the TBX on about 7 or 8. This may explain why I typically don't use a standard tone knob, since I like to remove the lows, and not the highs.
TNT
Well-known member
The "tone" knob is the best kept secret!!
I've even contacted DiMarzio about doing a neck pickup the emulates a tone knob at @7-8 when using the bridge pickup. "That" is the tone that a neck pickup would die for!!
Until that new neck pickup arrives, (which has much difficulty in making), my guitars will be geared to so that when I switch the pickup selector from bridge to neck, it will stay on the bridge pickup and incorporate the tone knob setting modification.
I've even contacted DiMarzio about doing a neck pickup the emulates a tone knob at @7-8 when using the bridge pickup. "That" is the tone that a neck pickup would die for!!
Until that new neck pickup arrives, (which has much difficulty in making), my guitars will be geared to so that when I switch the pickup selector from bridge to neck, it will stay on the bridge pickup and incorporate the tone knob setting modification.
nobozos
Well-known member
TNT, you should seriously consider a TBX tone control. You may be able to achieve the tone you are looking for by rolling off some lows in the neck pickup. You may need to start with a really bright neck pickup, but it should be do-able with a TBX. Much cheaper than having a custom pickup made.
What exactly does the TBX do? It rolls off the lows rahter than the highs? that's the only difference?
nobozos
Well-known member
From 5 to 0, a TBX tone control acts like a normal tone control, shunting the high frequencies to ground while passing the low frequencies through the circuit.
From 5 to 10, a TBX tone control passes the high frequencies through the circuit, while shunting the low frequencies to ground. This creates the illusion that it's adding highs. There is some good room between 5 and 8 before you start losing the bottom end chunk.
Here's an article.
http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Electronics/Pots/w101-tonecontrol.html
From 5 to 10, a TBX tone control passes the high frequencies through the circuit, while shunting the low frequencies to ground. This creates the illusion that it's adding highs. There is some good room between 5 and 8 before you start losing the bottom end chunk.
Here's an article.
http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Electronics/Pots/w101-tonecontrol.html
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jamminjim
Well-known member
Don't forget different values of the capacitor and also a bypass capacitor. Also, some caps are better than others in physical materials and construction.
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beej
Moderator
Does the JP50 not have 500k pots? Most dual humbucker guitars do.
Adding resistance is going to brighten your p'ups (raising the resonant frequency). Since humbuckers are generally less bright than single coils, they have larger pots. Single coils (and bright humbuckers) generally don't need the added load, and are fine with 250k pots. However it all depends on how your pickups are voiced. There are some humbuckers that like less load on them.
For fun, one thing you can try is adding a push/pull pot to your tone control. Leave it as-is when pushed, but wire it so it's out of the circuit when pulled. Basically you end up with a bright switch of sorts that you can engage when necessary. (I've got my AL wired up like that.)
patpark
Well-known member
jp50 does have 500k pots, I think Tung is going to upgrade to USA made pots.
TNT
Well-known member
NoBOZ,
Thanks for the headsup on the TBX. I'm always in the mood to check something out worthwhile. If I can get it close, than that will save time and mod's, so it'd be worth it.
Yeah, the "caps" have a lot to do with it too, and that's the "time consuming" labor of the process of elimination.
Thanks for the headsup on the TBX. I'm always in the mood to check something out worthwhile. If I can get it close, than that will save time and mod's, so it'd be worth it.
Yeah, the "caps" have a lot to do with it too, and that's the "time consuming" labor of the process of elimination.
Yes, that's what I'm going to do once my JP pick ups arrive. Also going to change the toggle switch if I can find one like the JP6 switch.
I have to say that all this upgrading are simply icing on the cake. The stock JP50 is a great guitar as is
beej
Moderator
On the pots- if you're keeping them the same value and you like the feel, there's no big reason to upgrade. The only thing you're going to get with more expensive pots is a tighter tolerance (perhaps closer to 500k). i.e. There isn't going to be any difference in your tone.
Guitarburetor
Well-known member
Pot value vs. tone-
When the value of the volume pot is changed, the loading of the pickup is affected and the resonant peak changes. Using a 250K to replace a 500K will typically lower the resonant peak of the pickup and make the peak broader, but the exact effect will depend on the pickup design.
High and low frequencies are also affected, and typically the lower value pot will seem to decrease the highs and will also decrease the low frequency response. While you might think, oh no, I don't want that!- it just may be that a fatter midrange and tighter low end can be the perfect voicing.
Note that the Steve Morse models use 250K pots...
BTW, there is no such thing as an American made pot anymore, they are all imported.
Dudley
When the value of the volume pot is changed, the loading of the pickup is affected and the resonant peak changes. Using a 250K to replace a 500K will typically lower the resonant peak of the pickup and make the peak broader, but the exact effect will depend on the pickup design.
High and low frequencies are also affected, and typically the lower value pot will seem to decrease the highs and will also decrease the low frequency response. While you might think, oh no, I don't want that!- it just may be that a fatter midrange and tighter low end can be the perfect voicing.
Note that the Steve Morse models use 250K pots...
BTW, there is no such thing as an American made pot anymore, they are all imported.
Dudley
beej
Moderator
And there you have it ... from the master.
