Air Zone or Tone Zone for an Axis restoration?

[B2D]

Hi guys. I'm looking to restore my Axis Super Sport to as close to OEM condition as possible, and the OEM pickups had been removed at some point in the past.

I understand the Air Norton is a close substitute for the neck slot, and I hear that in the bridge the Tone Zone or the Air Zone will work.

To those who have experience, which is closer for the bridge slot? I've heard differing opinions, both on and off here.

Of course the obvious answer is to wait for an Axis pickup set to come up on eBay, but I can't wait that long so I'll just have to get close with the production Dimarzio offerings.

 

[Stratty316]

you could even try a set of the new EVH Brand pickup... one would assume that it would be in the similar ball park for tone as the Axis pickup.

I did put a Tone Zone in a Strat years back and I did like the sound a lot. Hard to compare that to an Axis though...

 

[B2D]

at the risk of being sniped by one of you knuckleheads...

DiMarzio Axis Eddie VanHalen Humbucking Pickup "NEW" - eBay (item 260585760000 end time Apr-18-10 20:15:37 PDT)

Is this legit? I might have a stab at it.

 

[browndog]

I emailed Dimarzio about a month ago and asked their tech if I should choose Tone Zone & Air Norton pups to achieve the Axis sound.

Answer from Dimarzio:
That's correct. The bridge pickup should be F-spaced (DP155F) and the neck pickup should be standard-spaced (DP193).

 

[Butch Snyder]

Heya Brenden,

Don't forget that DiMarzio has a 30-day satisfaction guarantee much like Duncan's 21-day exchange policy.

 

[azazael]

I emailed Dimarzio about a month ago and asked their tech if I should choose Tone Zone & Air Norton pups to achieve the Axis sound.

Answer from Dimarzio:
That's correct. The bridge pickup should be F-spaced (DP155F) and the neck pickup should be standard-spaced (DP193).

They are just makin sure you buy pickups lol...

 

[jamminjim]

why not ask CS if they will sell you a new set of pups?

 

[B2D]

why not ask CS if they will sell you a new set of pups?

I did. They politely told me that those pickups are not for sale through them.

 

[hbucker]

IMO the Tone Zone is NOTHING like the bridge pickup in the EVH/Axis. The Axis pickup has a PAF quality to it and a brightness that makes it clean up very well and gives it a lot of control in high gain.

The Tone Zone on the the other hand is a lot hotter, muddy, middy, and has none of the character of the Axis pickup. This is after about 7 years with two Tone Zones in 3 different gutiars and having the same results in each...

I know DiMarzio states that the Air Norton - Tone Zone combo is their closest match. So-be-it, but the TZ isn't even on the same planet IMO. You'd be better off finding a modern spin on a PAF from Duncan or someone like that...

My 2 cents.

 

[Roubster]

Try the Air Zone instead. Has very similar qualities to the Tone Zone but is more versatile. It is very clear and every note has great definition without any muddiness whatsoever. It's perfect for rhythm and solos at the same time. I could play with that pickup all the time if I had to...sounds great at the higher registers. I think it also has to do something with the "air" technology. Best pickup I have heard to date, and will be just perfect for the ASS.

 

[B2D]

IMO the Tone Zone is NOTHING like the bridge pickup in the EVH/Axis. The Axis pickup has a PAF quality to it and a brightness that makes it clean up very well and gives it a lot of control in high gain.

The Tone Zone on the the other hand is a lot hotter, muddy, middy, and has none of the character of the Axis pickup. This is after about 7 years with two Tone Zones in 3 different gutiars and having the same results in each...

I know DiMarzio states that the Air Norton - Tone Zone combo is their closest match. So-be-it, but the TZ isn't even on the same planet IMO. You'd be better off finding a modern spin on a PAF from Duncan or someone like that...

My 2 cents.

Going to a Duncan isn't really going to make it any closer to the stock offering... at least I can ballpark with with the same make, if not necessarily with the same model.

Try the Air Zone instead. Has very similar qualities to the Tone Zone but is more versatile. It is very clear and every note has great definition without any muddiness whatsoever. It's perfect for rhythm and solos at the same time. I could play with that pickup all the time if I had to...sounds great at the higher registers. I think it also has to do something with the "air" technology. Best pickup I have heard to date, and will be just perfect for the ASS.

I've been meaning to try one of those anyways in my Silo Special.

 

[B2D]

Well it look slike I just have to worry about the bridge pickup now... I won the auction for that neck pickup by ONE CENT!!! Hahaha!!! Damn I'm good.

 

[threeminutesboy]

Well it look slike I just have to worry about the bridge pickup now... I won the auction for that neck pickup by ONE CENT!!! Hahaha!!! Damn I'm good.

congrats

 

[Andrew Whitmore]

This is relevant.

And it's one of my posts too! Yay me!!!

As long as DangerDog doesn't mind me giving a bit of an explanation in HIS thread.

First a bit of background for those who aren't obsessed with pickups. Ever wondered why there are DiMarzio pickups that have AIR in front of them? The Air Norton, Air Zone, Air Classics.

Quote from Dimarzio.com
"What are Airbuckers?
Airbuckers are full-sized humbuckers that contain a gap or space between the magnet and the polepieces. The distance is quite small, and may be filled with nothing but air or by some non-magnetic material. The purpose of the gap is to lessen the magnetic field over the pickup, which in turn lets the string vibrate more freely. This results in a purer, more open sound and improved sustain.
The other purpose of the “air” design is to reliably reproduce the performance of vintage humbuckers (1950s and 60s), many of which contain magnets weakened by age and mishandling. Weakened or "aged" magnets are inherently unstable, and therefore cause unpredictable performance. Airbuckers utilize stable, full-strength magnets, yet the magnetic field is the same as produced by an "aged" magnet, thus offering the performance advantage without the unpredictability."

Another quote from dimarzio.com

"What type of pickups were used in the Eddie Van Halen MusicMan Guitar?
These pickups were only available as original equipment on the EVH MusicMan guitar. MusicMan replaced the Van Halen guitar with a very similar model called the Axis, which uses the same pickups. The closest-sounding pickups we offer are the Air Norton™ for the neck position and the Tone Zone® for the bridge position."

Those who have experience with the TZ and the AN will know that when you A/B them to the AXIS pickups, they do sound ballpark similar. But, in comparison to the AN, the Axis neck pickup has more bite and snap to it, and is grainier all over. And in comparison to the TZ, the Axis bridge pickup has a more vintage feel and doesn't feel as overbearing.

So a few buddies of mine thought of HALF AIRING the pickups. That is making it so that the magnet in the pickup touches one set of the pole pieces, but not both as a tradition pickup would. So just to clarify, a tradition pickup has both sets of polepieces touching the mag; an Airbucker has neither of the sets of polepieces touching the mag; so, theoretically, a Half Aired pickup has one set of polepieces touching the mag.

The results are pretty pleasing. You get a Bridge pickup that has the vintage feel of an Air Zone, but the punch of the Tone Zone. You get a neck pickup that has the hi speed/vintage taste clarity of the Air Norton, but the sizzle and upper mid crunch of the Norton.

 

[hbucker]

Going to a Duncan isn't really going to make it any closer to the stock offering... at least I can ballpark with with the same make, if not necessarily with the same model.


IMO you can get A LOT closer than the TZ with many different pickups. That's how far the TZ is from the stock Axis pickups. Again... IMO.

I have not tried the mod referred to above though. If that makes the TZ into the Axis pickup then so-be-it. I just know that if I were doing a project like yours, I would start with looking for the real pickups on Ebay. If that didn't work I'd focus on a variety of pickups other than the TZ. This isn't a DiMarzio thing for me. It's a TZ thing.

The Air Norton is actually pretty close. Not the same. But pretty close. And it is a decent pickup.

 

[B2D]

Going to a Duncan isn't really going to make it any closer to the stock offering... at least I can ballpark with with the same make, if not necessarily with the same model.


IMO you can get A LOT closer than the TZ with many different pickups. That's how far the TZ is from the stock Axis pickups. Again... IMO.

I have not tried the mod referred to above though. If that makes the TZ into the Axis pickup then so-be-it. I just know that if I were doing a project like yours, I would start with looking for the real pickups on Ebay. If that didn't work I'd focus on a variety of pickups other than the TZ. This isn't a DiMarzio thing for me. It's a TZ thing.

The Air Norton is actually pretty close. Not the same. But pretty close. And it is a decent pickup.

I don't have anything against using pickups other than DMZs if i have to go with the next best thing, but I need to match the look as well as the sound for this one.

I suppose that a Duncan '78 with an aged bobbin would be another way to go... anything else you can think of?

EDIT: aaagh just remembered the duncan won't fit in there without dremeling the mounting tabs down.

 

[hbucker]

Yeah, that's a drag with the tabs. But still very doable.

My only suggestion, other than be patient and scour Ebay for originals, is to look at pickups with the same magnets and that are billed (one way or the other) as a "modern PAF" style pickup.

Of course there are a lot out there but that's where I would start.

FWIW: The pickup in EVH's 5150 guitar (the one he used prior to the Music Man and the one on which the EVH neck was based) are reported to be either Duncan '59's or JB's depending on who you listen to.

Of course there are those who believe that they weren't stock at all and were custom wound by elves and treated with a special monkey dust. IMO the '59's or JB's seem like a fair guess though and are consistent on some level with what I'm recommending.

Dremmeling the tabs affects value but you can find someone who would still buy them from you.

I feel your pain though. I don't know that there is an accurate or cheap way to do this without some trial and error. But I stick to my condemnation of the TZ as a "close" replacement of the stock bridge.

 

[guitarcats]

anyone tried or heard about using the 36th anniversary PAF's?

 

[bbake1]

Jamie has and sound great in an Axis.

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/mus...hries-ernie-ball-music-man-youtube-video.html

 

[Stevie]

Why don't you try Bare Knuckles VHII. That'll get you closer to EVH's earlier brown sound.