Question Axis/ASS action height adjustment worries.

[cm_17]

I am basically ready to pull the trigger on an Axis with Floyd, although the ASS starts to grow on me as well .

However, during test-play of a beautifully sounding Axis BFR at GC today with an extra bad setup, I noticed that the tremolo studs do not work for string/bridge height adjustments, as it's a non-recessed system - which I enjoy, no issue with that.

But, that pretty much means that besides a neck shim there is no way to lower the action further than a material-given point after neck relief has been dialed in...a very crude method and major bummer. I searched the board here for more details on this, but the info is quite scattered and not satisfying IMHO. Just tweaking the truss rod won't do.

Can any of the Axis w/ Floyd owners here tell me about their experiences? Did many of you shim(ed) the neck to get lower than default? How low can you really go, straight out of the box?

Also, I did not find any info about the ASS hard tail - are the saddles individually height-adjustable? If yes, that would give the ASS a major selling point...and would also mean my search needs to go on .

 

[Stratty316]

I would think after a good set up you really would not want or need the action any lower then what it comes with from the factory. If the guitar isn't set up right at GC then it should not be a fair judge of the Axis. I own 3 and find the action is extremely low and buzz free when they are set up right.

 

[cm_17]

I would think after a good set up you really would not want or need the action any lower then what it comes with from the factory.

I humbly beg to differ. After all, it's personal preference and feeling, and thus needs to be adjusted individually. Action height and neck relief might be the most important self-adjustable and personal things on a guitar, I think.

I don't have all my guitars on silly low, but I'd like to have a reasonable action distance to adjust and play around with. The question is - how much play is there?

 

[Tone?]

I have somewhat the same problem/issue as well. Unfortunately you cant do too much lowering the bridge only if it is slightly raised already.

This is what I did to my Axis and love it this way. But it might not be for everyone.

I took the base plate off of my Gotoh Floyd so it rests on its original plate.
That is I took off the shim plate which is that removable plate between the baseplate and the trem block.

this allowed me to take off the extra shims which were on the neck heel in the neck pocket. When I bought the guitar it had about 5 shims on there and was too angled for my tastes. So this is something I wanted to alter. Too many shims just annoys me and make the guitar too bright by tilting the neck too much.
SO......

It really worked out fine for me and sounds much better to my ears.

I dig having my floyds set flush to the body as the Axis is, but maybe it needs to be re-thought so it can be blocked at the trem block or something so no shims need to be added to adjust action.

just my two cents.

the Axis is a superb guitar though and I will never give mine up. And the Axis BFR must be even more awesome.

 

[Jack FFR1846]

My Axis has a nice setup right from the get go. But I bought it from Pete DuBaldo, so it was not only set up already, but was even in tune.

I also have an ASS and it has the vintage trem which has very easily adjusted saddles for height. I have played around with it quite a bit over the last year or so. It's very easy to change on a whim.

 

[agt]

I have all mine down to 3 or 4 64ths of an inch action with no buzz. But the truss rod adjustment is critical to achieving this.

Unless you have some very unusual preferences (extremely heavy strings?), a properly set up Ball should not need any modification to how it left the factory. This is a tried and true design for the better part of 20 years. It works the way it was designed, but it has to be set up correctly. I would ask the retailer to have it set up for you.

Best.

 

[agt]

BTW, aside from the Axis, all the other Balls except the Steve Morse have individual saddle height adjustments. The ASS (both trem and hardtail) are among these.

The Morse has a tune-o-matic style bridge, so the whole thing can be raised or lowered, but not the individual saddles.

 

[Slingy]

I only have a hardtail Super Sport. Individual saddle adjustment. Stock setup is very very low for my taste but plays without buzz. Gotta love the hardtails!

 

[Tone?]

the shims must have been from the factory cause they were the plastic ones EB uses

 

[Dante]

if you reside in the US, they can shim/seal necks for you if you want.

 

[cm_17]

Thanks guys for these insights, that was very revealing.

I took the base plate off of my Gotoh Floyd so it rests on its original plate.
That is I took off the shim plate which is that removable plate between the baseplate and the trem block.

That is a very good suggestion. I'd guess that this gives the trem a little play up and down when floating to adjust action height, depending on how the neck sits. But frankly, to me that defeats the purpose of having a non-recessed trem as it loses contact with the body.

I have all mine down to 3 or 4 64ths of an inch action with no buzz. But the truss rod adjustment is critical to achieving this.

Thanks for that. Is that done on a hardtail or with the Floyd? +/-/< 3/64 is where my flatter fretboard guitars usually range. I do my setup work myself, and I've had Floyd-equipped axes all my (guitar-)life, so that should be fine.

I sure expect the Axis not to be a sub-1mm action guitar due to fretboard radius. I love the feel. I love the tones. I love the fact that the guitar has a great company behind it. I just worry that the Axis not very flexible to dial in personal preferences, or loses some of its advantages when doing so (i. e. having the bridge floating) - after shelling out my money I'd expect the guitar to be adjustable.

Looks like a hardtail/vintage trem ASS would be the way to go for me then!

 

[agt]

I just measured my EVH Floyd with 9s: 4/64 from top of 12th fret to underside of low E in playing position. Plays perfectly. This is an older guitar, so some fret wear may be part of that measurement.

My newer ASS with vintage trem with 10s is a tad lower, maybe 3.5/64ths. Plays perfectly too without buzzing. The saddles have plenty of room to go lower if desired, but probably at the tradeoff of some buzz.

In both cases, the relief is about .010" (fretting 1st and 15th frets with capos and measuring under the low E and above the 7th fret in playing position).

The ASS definitely will give you a wider variety of options for tweaking individual saddle heights if that is a concern.

Strongly consider a BFR if making such an investment. Good luck with your quest!

 

[cm_17]

Thx for checking, much appreciated! Good info on the vintage trem. It really looks like the hardtail or vintage trem might be more appropriate for my expectations for this guitar.

BFR or not, all I need to is stumble upon the right one .

 

[Roubster]

If you really love trems, then the MM Vintage system is really amazing. Steve Lukather went from a Floyd to the Vintage trem on his LUKE model which is set up to float from the factory. I have both of my guitars with Vintage Trems set up to float with very low action. If you want a floating Floyd then get a Steve Morse model with the trem...they have been making them recessed for some time now from what I found out in one of the other threads (also confirmed by one of the EBMM guys).

 

[Adamr]

just my two cents. i have an axis . which i bought a couple of months ago. and tbh it was setup with a very nice action . probaly low enought to suit your needs but u sound like a fiddler when it comes to guitars. but if an axis is what u want then i bet u can achieve just about anything you want to with it . with the help of someone who knows what there doing. i just had mine setup so it floats and the guy told me about how there are already shims under the neck (which i didnt know) . he had to add to them so i could have it float and keep the same action. the action on mine is what ive worked out to be 3/64ths of an inch. im english so thats 1.2 millimeters roughly.
but if you like to constently adjust things. then maybe the vintage trem on the ass is the way to go .

 

[Tone?]

No dude taking the plate shim off doesnt make the Gotoh float.

It just rests on the body of the guitar with the baseplate and NOT the shim baseplate. Get it??

it works awesome as far as I am concerned.

this is what i am talking about

Flickr Photo Download: 170_7069

 

[cm_17]

I usually shim necks myself, so that part of the fiddling around shouldn't be an issue . Am still thinking.

Tone?, I do understand what you did. Shim plate off, trem all the way down on the body = lower than before by the amount the shim plate lifted it. And I think it's a great idea. What I meant is that when you remove the shim plate and set it as a floater (given the neck is correctly adjusted and shimmed), you have some play to adjust it up or down, by the same amout, like a recessed Floyd. Get it??

 

[Tone?]

aha!


thanks man!

 

[cm_17]

Ok, I guess I should have enough experience with setups to tackle the beast.

I just pulled the trigger on an EBMM Axis in Pacific BlueBurst quilt. Character quilt, to be precise . Now the waiting starts until UPS knocks at the door.

Thanks all for the much appreciated info and help.

 

[Jack FFR1846]

I just pulled the trigger on an EBMM Axis in Pacific BlueBurst quilt. Character quilt, to be precise . Now the waiting starts until UPS knocks at the door.

oooooooo......you picked one of my favorite colors on an Axis.....

Someday..(when I win the lottery)...I'll just order up all my favorites.

Good choice....you're gonna love it!