Axis setup questions

[veniculum]

Hey guys...about a week ago, I posted my new Axis, and got a lot of compliments (as well as a lot of good info about this guitar)...so once again...THANKS!

Unfortunately, this particular guitar has been a bit of a problem right out of the gate. I took the guitar home the first night and realized that 1) it was a 2009 model...meaning it had probably been on the floor a while, and 2) it needed a setup pretty bad. So I brought it back to GC and asked that they do a setup on the house, as it was a new guitar. The kids they have working there are the worst..wise-asses....they wanted to charge me...and I was able to get a manager to take care of it. That said, a week went by and the thing still wasn't done, so I called and asked that they please finish it by the end of the day, which did eventually happen.

Now I know who they hire at these places...and the guys at this particular GC were real young...couldn't have been much more than 18. So I don't expect much...no offense to someone who may know a guy that works at one of the big chain stores...I'm sure there are guys who are good...but at this GC, it was terrible.

I got the guitar home....it still went wildly out of tune if I did a divebomb on the trem. Then, to my horror, I saw that the strings hadn't even been stretched. Even worse, I came to find out that after getting the strings stretched and in tune, when I locked down on the nut, the two bottom/low strings went wildly sharp.
I should also mention that this kid set the action so low that just about every string buzzed at one point or another.

Before I brought the guitar back for a setup, the using the trem did send the guitar out of tune...but everything else seemed ok...the neck, action and intonation needed adjustment, but no biggie.

So now I know that I have every right in the world to bring this thing back to GC...but I don't want that kid touching my guitar, and I don't want to wait another week for another setup.

I have a tech that works on all my guitars...he's been doing this stuff for over 30 years, and every guitar he touches comes out almost magical...I can go years without another setup on a guitar once this guy sets them up for me.

I guess my question (or more notably, my fear) is, does this sound like just a case of a bad setup, or is it possible that I got a lemon? Remember, this thing was not perfect from the minute I got it. But like any guitar, I figured a setup would fix it. In this case, the setup (from GC) made it 10 times worse. My biggest concerns are dealing with the locking nut, and the fact that the strings go out of tune when the screws are clamped down. Then, of course, the fact that the trem sends the guitar out of tune has me a little worried as well. I mean...it's a Gotoh trem...so I would figure that's a quality Floyd...should stay in tune.

Has anyone else had any of these problems with a new guitar.
I know some of you will tell me to bring this thing back to GC and demand that it be made right, on their dollar. But quite frankly, it takes more gas and time to drive up there than it does to just bring it to my local guy who I know is going to fix it (provided there isn't an actual problem with the hardware)

I'd really appreciate any of your comments or feedback.
Thanks as always.

Todd

 

[beej]

Todd-

Ok, first thing, take a breath. Your guitar is great- it'll all be fine. Sounds like you just got a bad setup.

With the Floyd, there's not really a lot too this. Mostly you're going to be adjusting the truss rod to change the neck relief. Worst case there's some tweaking on the trem. So your guy should be able to take care of it easily. If you do have issues- you bought this new, so you'll be able to go back to GC and be taken care of.

So I'd say s'all good.

 

[Big Poppa]

like the last thread please dont ask strangers to help you when they cant see the guitar. Contact our customer service...

I am not being mean but it is posted here all the time. Time has proven well meaning unsolicited advice and fixing a problem are not related!

 

[veniculum]

like the last thread please dont ask strangers to help you when they cant see the guitar. Contact our customer service...

I am not being mean but it is posted here all the time. Time has proven well meaning unsolicited advice and fixing a problem are not related!

I appreciate what you're saying...I probably should clarify...I'm not asking so much for advise on how to fix anything...I have a guy that will do that...or I will take it back...it's that simple.
The point of my post was more at a dig towards the guys who work at GC, Sam Ash, etc. It's extremely frustrating to me that I've been a musician and a player for over 25 years, and when I put down good money on a guitar, it's a real shame that these stores don't want to employ quality techs...guys that could really use the work, and who would do a good job...which is ultimately, what the buyer deserves...particularly when you're dealing with USA-made, $1500+ guitars. I mean, GC has a platinum site...perhaps they should have 'platinum' service.

I do apologize if it came off like I was looking for advise. More than anything, I just wanted a little feedback on these Gotoh trems...and..quite simply..I wanted to vent about my experience at GC. Perhaps the title of the thread should be changed.

 

[beej]

Ok, I'll change the thread title.

Let's not bash GC across the board. You've had a questionable setup by one guy, so that doesn't necessarily reflect the entire company. Not a surprise that it does need a setup, though, if it's been sitting in the store for a while and played by countless guys over the year.

On Gotoh- they make great trems. MM wouldn't be using them otherwise (and they're very well regarded). If the guitar wasn't setup right, strings streched/locked, no surprise it's not returning to pitch. Locked in a non-floating configuration you're not likely to have any issues once it's set up.

 

[veniculum]

Ok, I'll change the thread title.

Let's not bash GC across the board. You've had a questionable setup by one guy, so that doesn't necessarily reflect the entire company. Not a surprise that it does need a setup, though, if it's been sitting in the store for a while and played by countless guys over the year.

On Gotoh- they make great trems. MM wouldn't be using them otherwise (and they're very well regarded). If the guitar wasn't setup right, strings streched/locked, no surprise it's not returning to pitch. Locked in a non-floating configuration you're not likely to have any issues once it's set up.

You're correct...I probably shouldn't lump all these guys into one group...but facts are facts. You walk into a small shop (and I'm going to plug my guys)....Central Jersey Music (and if I'm violating some other rule on this board, I'm sorry)...but these guys have been doing this for many years. Any one of them could bury the kids at GC...facts are facts. This is not to say that GC doesn't employ some good guys. Matter of fact, my previous tech was a GC guy...he was a young guy and very talented. I never had a problem taking my guitars to him. Sadly (or probably fortunately for him) he left...and I never found out where he went.

I think what I'm trying to get across here is this. These big stores are great if you want to try out a guitar, get just about any guitar you want..and you get a good exchange period if something isn't right. The problem is..and it's a problem not just in this business..but across the boards...service, very often takes a dive because companies don't want to spend money on talented techs. They're way more interested in making the sale. And in this particular business, there is a HUGE difference between customers. A 12 year old kid beginning on a guitar doesn't know how to tune the thing, no less set the intonation, adjust the action, or float the bridge. And yet, the same guy who sets fifty cheapo guitars a day is now working on mine, and what's worse, expects that I won't know the difference. I would venture to say (and in this particular case...certainly not all)...but I'm certain I know more about setting up a guitar than the kid that worked on mine this time around.
This goes back to my statements earlier...there should be standard service, and platinum service (and I would be willing to pay quite frankly)....just like there's guitars right on the floor that everyone is allowed to pickup and play, scratch, drop, etc... and there are guitars behind the counter. There's absolutely a difference! I'm not sure why service isn't handled the same way.

So, Beej...I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm sure there are plenty of qualified guys out there working at any one of the big shops. But in my experience...(and this is a message board where I would hope it would not only be allowed, but encouraged, to express experiences)...in the big shops, for the most part, you're not going to get great service...period. At least not on the level of my guys at the local repair shop.

More than anything, the bad service experiences, then extend out to message boards just like this. So while I understand that, yes...people can't diagnose a problem without really looking at it (as was mentioned in a previous post)...as a new owner, with a problem, my immediate reaction is to turn to others who have the same equipment.

Now, with that said, I was told to let customer service handle this type of thing. And on one hand, I agree that someone can't diagnose a problem based on what someone else is saying...believe me...I'm a systems administrator, and people call me all day with problems. In more cases than not, I'm not providing any solutions without looking at and diagnosing the problem myself. On the other hand...I turn to online forums all day for answers to questions...some informational, some for troubleshooting, etc. I'm not really sure why something like this would be discouraged on this site. Once again..I'm not looking for a diagnosis...just some suggestions more than anything else. The first reply was EXACTLY what I was looking for..."probably a bad setup"...and your follow-up regarding the Gotoh trem (which is the thing I'm concerned about the most) was also very reassuring. Both comments set me straight and put me at ease.

So I hope I've cleared up why I posted to begin with...I didn't mean to break any forum rules...I've had a little bit of a rough experience...I am not thrilled with the guys who did an initial 'setup' on it, and I wanted to make sure that it was most likely a setup problem, and not a common 'hardware' problem...and I wanted to vent a little
That's all.
Thanks.

 

[beej]

Dude- on one hand you're saying the small shops have guys that could "bury" GC techs, then you're saying your last great guy was a GC tech. It's not a fact that the small guys have the best techs, lots of guys have been burned by "the small guy" and there are some big shops that provide fantastic customer service. Let's try not to generalize.

You're basically saying you got a bad setup but before it's even resolved your asking if there's a problem with the guitar, is the bridge bad, etc, which is jumping the gun.

Honestly, all it probably requires is an easy setup. If you're not happy with the work that was done, take it back to GC and get somebody more qualified involved. If you want to pay additional money to take it to your tech, who you really trust, then that's great too. But realize that there is a process in place to ensure that customers are taken care of.

And that was the point of BP's post. These threads get out of hand when people ask for advice or start suggesting that their guitar is broken, etc. without giving the customer support / dealer channel the ability to address these problems. (That's what they're paid the big bucks for.)

If you're not satisfied with an instrument, the right approach is to take it back to your dealer. If they can't help you, then contact EBMM customer support directly and they will find somebody that can help you, or find a way to make it right.

 

[OU812]

I've always been a firm believer that a person should learn to set up their own guitars. Learn to intonate, adjust the action and truss rod correctly and so on. I know it can be somewhat daunting for some people, but its a great skill to have once you learn it. Its a trial and error thing sometimes but like anything the more you do it the better you get at it.
By the way, on a Floyd locking nut some strings will go sharp or flat when you lock them down. Sometimes lowering the string retainer bar helps (but not too far down) but in most cases its unavoidable. You can compensate this by having those strings flat or sharp to begin with or just adjust it with your fine tuners afterwards, shouldn't be off by much. Your low E will almost always go sharp and your A a bit flat

 

[veniculum]

Dude- on one hand you're saying the small shops have guys that could "bury" GC techs, then you're saying your last great guy was a GC tech. It's not a fact that the small guys have the best techs, lots of guys have been burned by "the small guy" and there are some big shops that provide fantastic customer service. Let's try not to generalize.

You're basically saying you got a bad setup but before it's even resolved your asking if there's a problem with the guitar, is the bridge bad, etc, which is jumping the gun.

Honestly, all it probably requires is an easy setup. If you're not happy with the work that was done, take it back to GC and get somebody more qualified involved. If you want to pay additional money to take it to your tech, who you really trust, then that's great too. But realize that there is a process in place to ensure that customers are taken care of.

And that was the point of BP's post. These threads get out of hand when people ask for advice or start suggesting that their guitar is broken, etc. without giving the customer support / dealer channel the ability to address these problems. (That's what they're paid the big bucks for.)

If you're not satisfied with an instrument, the right approach is to take it back to your dealer. If they can't help you, then contact EBMM customer support directly and they will find somebody that can help you, or find a way to make it right.

Dude...I've been nothing but courteous throughout this entire exchange. I got a bad setup...I came to a forum that is supposed to be for owners of EB MM instruments...I asked a simple question...has anyone else had this problem. I proceeded to explain the rationale to my post..and then my second post. But if your going to criticize everything I say, I'll just go elsewhere. The whole point of any message board is to get information. OK...I get it..this board is more sensitive than most when it comes to issues. Fine...contact customer support. Well..ok..."not to be mean"...but I did contact customer support...the day I got the guitar...I have yet to get an email reply from that original request. I chalked it up to...oh well...it's the holidays.

So I come back here to share a simple experience. I bought a guitar that I like...I'm bummed because it wasn't setup to begin with...I'm more bummed because the guys that sold me the thing did a ****ty job setting it up...and now...to add complete insult to injury, I'm getting chastised for asking some folks on an online message board for their experiences. OK..fine...if I can't come here and ask for that help, I'll find somewhere else to go.

I do minimal setups on my guitars, but this one was way beyond my abilities...so, yes...it went to my tech tonight. Does that mean I'm not supposed to tell the folks that own the same equipment what I went through...maybe ask if anyone else had a similar problem...all I'm looking for was some info, and a place to vent about a ****ty situation. Information that might be valuable to the guy who's setting up my guitar.

Forget it. Now I don't want it

 

[OU812]

To be honest I wouldn't let any GC employee touch any of my guitars (if I lived in the states) after all the stories I've heard. Sadly, your story doesn't surprise me and I've heard much worse. That doesn't make it any better I know, but thats the way it is. All I can say is lesson learned and next time steer clear of their 'techs'. I'm sure they have some good ones but like I said from what I've heard its few and far between.
Hope you get your guitar sorted

 

[beej]

Chill, I'm not criticizing you. Other than politely hinting that you not slam GC across the board, I was explaining a few things about EBMM and this forum and I thought I was plenty courteous.

Relax and enjoy the place.

 

[veniculum]

To be honest I wouldn't let any GC employee touch any of my guitars (if I lived in the states) after all the stories I've heard. Sadly, your story doesn't surprise me and I've heard much worse. That doesn't make it any better I know, but thats the way it is. All I can say is lesson learned and next time steer clear of their 'techs'. I'm sure they have some good ones but like I said from what I've heard its few and far between.
Hope you get your guitar sorted

The guitar is fixed...My tech did a great job.
I won't make any more comments about GC and their techs in this forum...although I will say the kids at the Springfield, NJ GC had a lousy attitude and did a lousy job. That said, the manager who sold me this guitar was a heck of a nice guy and really did try to make me happy. Too bad he wasn't the one working on it.

At the end of the day, all I want to do is thank my tech, and the best way for me to return the favor is for me to mention his shop. So for anyone in NJ, it's worth traveling the whole state if you need guitar service. Central Jersey Music in Edison, NJ. Ask for John.
Thanks.

Todd

 

[bazxkr]

Glad you got sorted in the end... you can now look forward to doing what guitars are built for.... enjoyment

Cheers

Baz

 

[Sticky1973]

Todd-

Ok, first thing, take a breath. Your guitar is great- it'll all be fine. Sounds like you just got a bad setup....

The guitar is fixed...My tech did a great job.

Awesome result, hopefully you can see beej's reassurance really was well intended.

Glad you now have the guitar in the playing condition you want, get stuck into it brother.

And more pics man!

 

[guitfiddle]

So for anyone in NJ, it's worth traveling the whole state if you need guitar service. Central Jersey Music in Edison, NJ. Ask for John.

Good to know. Thanks Todd. I travel quite a bit and like to have a list of service shops should I need one.

I know you will enjoy your Axis. Fantastic guitars. Quite possibly my favorite ever. It definitely is for rock styles.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Yeah I'm glad too that it got sorted. I have a fantastic tech 10 mins away.
Spend an afternoon around his workshop most afternoons on a Saturday. - wait! - it is Saturday!!! - almost time to go!!

 

[Big Poppa]

OK I think that the tenor of our responses is being taken wrong. But let me address some things brought up in a random manner....

1. If your thread is about Guitar Center than it would be nice if that was the title of it.

2. If you love your small indie then you should support him whenever possible. Not bashing you or being mean...but what has happened to a lot of smaller dealers who give the service the customer base only supports the service and then they go away.

3. Never buy a shopworn or out of adjustment guitar without having the dealer set it up and dont leave the store until you are satisfied. If you have a less than great sales person their incentive to make you happy it stronger if they havent swiped your credit card.

4 If dissatisfied at Guitar Center you can bash them on an internatiponal forum or contact the manager first and then if not happily bash them. It sort of is not fair. Also if it looks like I am being overly protective of Guitar Center..you could be right. If it wasnt for Guitar Center there would be no Axis...or any of the more than 120,000 things we make. They saved our bacon with enough velocity and support to allow us to exist. Seriously....we would be toast. There is always a good side and bad.

5. You get a choice to interpret our instructions of contacting customer service instead of asking strangers many ways. Obviously you have taken a severe one....The logical one is we have made guitars for thirty years...since this interweb thing has happened is there is usually a very small problem...seriously keep in mind there are four chunks of wood a truss rod and bridge and tuners....someone always messes with what is a decent set up....tweaking for the perfect thing and usually ends up messing it up. It your case you bought a shopworn guitar and it needed refreshing.

Here is the reason...Before I made this just one of a few rules someone would post a problem (see my sig) Really kind and well meaning but really clueless people would give advice and the person posting would assume that if this person is on a forum they must know their stuff. In most cases the guy at GC that you had a problem with is a rocket scientist compared to the guys freely giving advice for a guitar he has never seen. The end result is a compounding of issues and sometimes to the point of a costly repair. THis ends up giving us a bigger problem to solve and a more costly problem for the instrument owner.
So the reason is not that we are censoring or stifling...it is we know this is the best, quickest, and economical way to getting you back playing your guitar.

6 Please post your email to customer service that you sent that went unanswered. This is really not something that never happens and if it truly did then I want to follow up on it. Include that address you sent it to

Thanks!

 

[veniculum]

OK I think that the tenor of our responses is being taken wrong. But let me address some things brought up in a random manner....

1. If your thread is about Guitar Center than it would be nice if that was the title of it.

2. If you love your small indie then you should support him whenever possible. Not bashing you or being mean...but what has happened to a lot of smaller dealers who give the service the customer base only supports the service and then they go away.

3. Never buy a shopworn or out of adjustment guitar without having the dealer set it up and dont leave the store until you are satisfied. If you have a less than great sales person their incentive to make you happy it stronger if they havent swiped your credit card.

4 If dissatisfied at Guitar Center you can bash them on an internatiponal forum or contact the manager first and then if not happily bash them. It sort of is not fair. Also if it looks like I am being overly protective of Guitar Center..you could be right. If it wasnt for Guitar Center there would be no Axis...or any of the more than 120,000 things we make. They saved our bacon with enough velocity and support to allow us to exist. Seriously....we would be toast. There is always a good side and bad.

5. You get a choice to interpret our instructions of contacting customer service instead of asking strangers many ways. Obviously you have taken a severe one....The logical one is we have made guitars for thirty years...since this interweb thing has happened is there is usually a very small problem...seriously keep in mind there are four chunks of wood a truss rod and bridge and tuners....someone always messes with what is a decent set up....tweaking for the perfect thing and usually ends up messing it up. It your case you bought a shopworn guitar and it needed refreshing.

Here is the reason...Before I made this just one of a few rules someone would post a problem (see my sig) Really kind and well meaning but really clueless people would give advice and the person posting would assume that if this person is on a forum they must know their stuff. In most cases the guy at GC that you had a problem with is a rocket scientist compared to the guys freely giving advice for a guitar he has never seen. The end result is a compounding of issues and sometimes to the point of a costly repair. THis ends up giving us a bigger problem to solve and a more costly problem for the instrument owner.
So the reason is not that we are censoring or stifling...it is we know this is the best, quickest, and economical way to getting you back playing your guitar.

6 Please post your email to customer service that you sent that went unanswered. This is really not something that never happens and if it truly did then I want to follow up on it. Include that address you sent it to

Thanks!

My email to customer service was sent via the web site...in the 'contact us' section. I do not have a copy as it was not sent from my email box...and I don't remember there being a checkbox to have a copy forwarded to my inbox. However, I will say that it was not an email about any issues I was having with the guitar...it was an email that was sent for informational purposes...i.e. was I supposed to get a manual?...what year is my guitar based on the serial number, as well as a few other general information questions.
Wouldn't you know it...I got my answers right here on this forum the same day...no, the same hour! Did not get a direct response from EB MM...unless, of course, you consider this site a response from EB MM. If that's the case, when I posted my issue that I was having, I'm not sure of the distinction...surely you can see why there may be some confusion here.

So perhaps there was a lot of misunderstanding going on. Please...set me straight. I can post questions that refer to general information..but I cannot post a question when it's in regards to a bad setup, or a problem that I experienced with a particular shop? I'm not being sarcastic if that's how you're taking it. I really do want to know.

Regarding GC....I understand your support of GC....I support them as well. I would not have purchased this guitar had I not been an (EXTREMELY FREQUENT) shopper of GC. After all...it's the only place that I know of (at least around here) that sells your instruments. The only time I played one before purchasing one was at GC. And I know many of the sales guys, customer support guys, and managers...they've all been very good to me over the years...many know me by name. That does not mean that I like the kids...the NEW kids... they have working in their shop...which, by the way, isn't even their shop...their techs are not direct employees of GC...they are contracted out...at least they are in both the East Brunswick and Springfield, NJ shops.

So once again...we can consider this thread closed as far as I'm concerned...I came here with a question...I was told what I can and can't post, and that's fine. I get it. I'm happy with my purchase, and everything is working fine.
Thank you again.

 

[Big Poppa]

Ok the answer you got within an hour was from Customer service. I think that advice on solving a problem I pretty much covered..no worries and I hope you consider that I spend a lot of time ttrying to explain things that some other heads of companies may hide from

Glad your guitar is fine and keep on rockin

 

[veniculum]

Ok the answer you got within an hour was from Customer service. I think that advice on solving a problem I pretty much covered..no worries and I hope you consider that I spend a lot of time ttrying to explain things that some other heads of companies may hide from

Glad your guitar is fine and keep on rockin

Thank you...I appreciate it, and I appreciate the instruments you guys are building.