Brand new John Petrucci owner! Question about bridge pickup singal hotness:

[dolinja]

Hello all,


I've been looking for a new axe for several months and I just bought a used John Petrucci 6 string over the weekend with the inlays and piezo pickup. Got it for an amazing price, no idea how old it is but is in perfect condition (I played it at the stored for hours before they told me it was used and I had no idea. I still wouldn't know if I wasn't told). It plays like a dream and seems to have satisfied my dreams of being able to whammy and dive bomb as well without having a FR (I can't make this thing go out of tune, I guess thats the locking tuners and graphite nut).

I am having some problems though because as soon as I plugged it in at home, I don't seem to be getting a hot enough signal from the bridge pickup to really get a heavy metal distortion from my amp)

I'm basically a bedroom/apartment player, not a gigging musician who likes to play
classic and heavy rock, metal and prog (Rush, Metallica, Dream Theater,
Def Leppard, Queensryche etc...) I've been playing the same Ibanex RG170 pos for 10 years through a Peavey Bandit 112 with a Boss CH1, DD3, and an EH Electric Mistress in the FX loop. This is basically a ****ty solid state amp, and while it's tone isn't great by any stretch (I'd never want to play live with it), it's always given me a great saturated driven distortion for searing leads and chunking metal
rhythm. The amp has a push/pull on the distorted channel which kicks
in some kind of heavier tube simulation (I think they call it
transtube). It's so noisy I've never used it, the regular distortion
with the gain all the way up has always been fine. Obviously it's not a stack of tube Marshalls or boogies, but it's just for my enjoyment and cost, volume and size are of great concerns for me.

When I played the Petrucci at the store through a nice Fender tube
amp (don't remember what it was) it had plenty of power
and gain there. Not exactly the metal crunch I normally get, but nice
and smooth. I also tried some distortion pedals and got plenty of
distortion and squeal although I hate distortion pedals compared to amp
distortion. Amazing harmonics there though.

So I finally got home and plugged my new baby in, and while everything
sounds gorgeously clean and clear, I'm having a very hard time reaching
the level of distortion that I need for metal playing. Very suprising
because I plugged my old POS back in and the bridge pickup there gave a
much more saturated and bassy response. I was very suprised. With max
volume up on the Petrucci bridge pickup and gain on the amp maxed out
(without the noisy transtube), I'm just not getting the heaviness and
chunk I was expecting and always got with my Ibanez. It feels like
I've rolled the volume knob back by a 1/3 except that it's actually at
the max. Slightly disappointing after nearly going broke buying this
thing. 4th fret natural harmonics just barely squeal (they rip with my old guitar).


This makes me think about a couple of things:


1. Given that this petrucci was used, maybe the previous user lowered
the pickup poles in the pups for less drive? It doesn't look that way
to me, however it might explain because after reading many reviews of
this guitar all over most people seem to say that this guitar has
reasonably hot pickups and is great for metal (although very controlled
with perfect clarity, not really wild).


2. Other thing to look at now is that I really just need to upgrade my
amp setup, it's time to get better tone. I'm looking at sticking with my
existing amp. I play in a new york city apartment and don't really
have the option for volume or true tube saturation to get great tone
and metal distortion. I do know a couple of companies seem to be
making small tube amps but they never seem to have great features like
an FX loop (which I need because my chorus and delay are very
important), or good tone controls. Even then it'd probably still be
too loud.


I could try some distortion pedals to drive the amp harder. However
I've never heard a distortion pedal I like, things like Boss, DOD,
whatever all sound like complete garbage in this respect. Even when I
played through some pedals into that Fender tube amp I was cringing.
It just squashes your sound, turns it brittle and makes me want to
throw up. Other options that I've been looking at are maybe skipping
the preamp stage of my amp and buying a floor based tube preamp like
the H&K Tubeman or MesaBoogie VTwin. I guess these could go right from
the preamp into the FX loop return from my amp (with the time based
effects in between of course). The idea would then be to just stick
with the preamp distortion with the amps clean channel. Or keep the
preamp on it's clean setting and still switch channels on the amp?


Does anyone have any advice, I'm not really a pro at this? It's
greatly appreciated!


Jason

 

[dolinja]

Ack, my amp is actually the Peavey Express 112, not Bandit... sorry!

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

I dont actually own a JP, but I understand that lots of people find the output of the JP a lot lower than they expected. Maybe you can shim the pickup?

 

[Roubster]

Well you probably have to tweak the amp to have a proper sound for the JP. There is probably a big difference in the pick ups between the Ibanez and JP anyway, so maybe a pick up change if you are not satisfied with em. Another good thing to do would be to plug it into yet another amp other than a Fenanedar, and see if that will give you a better sound you are looking for. Also if you want to know how old the JP is just post the Serial Number in the Sticky thread about serial numbers . Good luck.

BTW: Where did you get the JP? Guitar Center on 14th? I was there yesturday and they got a fully loaded JP in Pearl Redburst. Looked freakin sweet!

 

[dojo]

It sounds like your pickup is not close enough to the strings. I would look at the height of the bridge pup on your other guitar and compare them. If you need to raise the pup on your JP I would add springs to the mounting screws. A good source for springs are retractable pens. High action can also cause too much distance=low output.

 

[dolinja]

Well you probably have to tweak the amp to have a proper sound for the JP. There is probably a big difference in the pick ups between the Ibanez and JP anyway, so maybe a pick up change if you are not satisfied with em. Another good thing to do would be to plug it into yet another amp other than a Fenanedar, and see if that will give you a better sound you are looking for. Also if you want to know how old the JP is just post the Serial Number in the Sticky thread about serial numbers . Good luck.

BTW: Where did you get the JP? Guitar Center on 14th? I was there yesturday and they got a fully loaded JP in Pearl Redburst. Looked freakin sweet!

Thanks! I don't think I could have ever afforded a new one (I was originally looking at ESPs in the range of $500-900). I was away for the weekend in Ithaca, NY and found this used one at a little store there. Wonderful service and I was really happy to buy it from those guys rather than Guitar Center (I was looking in that Guitar Center on 14th a few weeks ago and the guys there seemed like real idiots to me).

This guitar plays like such a dream, I couldn't ever imagine something that felt more buttery with lower action. Just need to get some more signal now! I'll check that serial number tonight. Still shocked that so far my $200 Ibanez crunches more than this thing...

 

[Roubster]

Well the first thing you need to do is post pictures . What specs does it have: color, matching head, inlays, piezo? Like the other guys said, check the pup height, and if none of that works, that means that the pick up is not for your taste, and you should change it to a higher output pup I guess.

 

[fsmith]

Are you using the same cable? mono or stereo? I bleeb the mag jack is mono and the piezo is stereo. I'm not sure it would make a difference, but you never know.

Does the neck pickup sound good or is that one low output too?

It's hard to troubleshoot based on the info, but there are a few things you could look at.

I do know that when I swap between my Petrucci and go to the Morse and don't change any amp settings there is a big difference between the 2 guitars... You talk about hot pickups, that Morse bridge is a killer.

I have no trouble getting a good crunch with my Petrucci in either the mini-cube or TM60.

good luck,
fred

 

[beej]

Congrats on the new guitar!

Quick q for you- is the volume on the Petrucci consistent across the pickups? E.g. do the neck and bridge have similar output, and the in-between position drops in volume? (Try this on a clean setting to really hear.) Just trying to work out if there's something mucked up in your wiring, or if this is normal behaviour.

If it's normal, as desribed I'd try raising the pickups slighly. (Keep in mind that Mr. Petrucci's amps deliver a crushing amount of gain, so it's not necessary to have a super-high output pickup to get where he's going.)

If all else fails, and you really don't like the output level, as mentioned consider a pickup swap. My recommendation - and bang for the buck - would be a Bill Lawrence 500XL (that's the one Dimebag Darrell played) - it's a great sounding pickup, very very hot, and will only set you back about $50 or so. But there are a zillion choices out there.

 

[dolinja]

Congrats on the new guitar!

Quick q for you- is the volume on the Petrucci consistent across the pickups? E.g. do the neck and bridge have similar output, and the in-between position drops in volume? (Try this on a clean setting to really hear.) Just trying to work out if there's something mucked up in your wiring, or if this is normal behaviour.

If it's normal, as desribed I'd try raising the pickups slighly. (Keep in mind that Mr. Petrucci's amps deliver a crushing amount of gain, so it's not necessary to have a super-high output pickup to get where he's going.)

The volume is basically consistent from neck to bridge with a slight drop in the in between setting. That sounds normal to me. The pickup poles are almost flush with the body of the pickup itself so it looks like they could be raised a bit. The action is set unbelievably low so it shouldn't be an issue of high action raising the strings away from the pups.

So far I don't feel like the answer is really swapping out the pickup. I know it had a nice amount of gain through the amps I played through in the store. I'm reluctant to do surgery on this impeccable piece of equipment to compensate for my crappy amp (even if my old crappy guitar sounded good through it). I'd rather upgrade my gear in some way (although a cranked 100W Mesaboogie is simply not an option). Maybe I'll have to start experimenting with some distortion pedals to throw in front to boost the signal.

Tonight I'll be sure to do my best to measure the height (and also post some pics!).

 

[beej]

Yup, definitely sounds normal ... I smell a gear upgrade!

Option 1 - a good OD/Dist pedal in front of your amp. As it's solid state, you might want to try this into your amp set for clean. (Probably wouldn't sound good into the Bandit's disortion setting.) Some good choices would be the Xotic BB Preamp, Boss DS1, etc. A zillion pedals out there.

Option 2 is to get a small modelling amp for home use- like a Pod, etc. Gives you a million amps, good recording setup and a decent headphone out.

Congrats again on a killer guitar.

 

[dolinja]

Yup, definitely sounds normal ... I smell a gear upgrade!

Option 1 - a good OD/Dist pedal in front of your amp. As it's solid state, you might want to try this into your amp set for clean. (Probably wouldn't sound good into the Bandit's disortion setting.) Some good choices would be the Xotic BB Preamp, Boss DS1, etc. A zillion pedals out there.

Option 2 is to get a small modelling amp for home use- like a Pod, etc. Gives you a million amps, good recording setup and a decent headphone out.

Congrats again on a killer guitar.

Thanks! For Option #1, I never really seem to like the sound of Distortion pedals when I play them through those setups in guitar stores, always sound like complete garbage. Any thought on a more sophisticated tube preamp to liven up the sound? Either Mesa Boogie V Twin, Hughes & Kettner Tubeman or something like that. I'd use those to bypass the peavey's preamp. Basically go from the output of that input my chorus, flange, delay and then right into the FX return.

If that's enough to sweeten up the signal, I'd still use the two different channels on the Peavey, or I might use the different channels on the preamp. I'd bet it might work combining those somehow but then it'd start becoming a nightmare switching between clean and distorted sounds.

Thanks guys!
Jason

 

[olorin]

I've got a Vox valvestate 15 watt amp that I dont use any effects with and its a killer little amp, I play my Silhouettes through it instead of the Marshall I have and it works awesome. All kinds of settings, you can get distortion on anything from a strat to a EBMM with it and its under $200.00. Might want to check it out. LATE