Question Diming the Loud Pedal (Volume Control) on an MM bass

[drTStingray]

This question always bugs me - is there some reason why I shouldn't be diming the volume control on my MM basses? I've read various posts where people have said you shouldn't do this.

If so - why not?

I usually set my amp so that the input starts to go into the clip area when I play hard with the bass guitar on full volume - the output on the amp so it's a bit too loud in the mix - then I pull back the bass guitar volume so it's mixed about right - but I can turn up for those moments later in the set when the drummers adrenaline gets to boiling point and the guitarist feels he has to turn up to still be 'out front ' - at this stage I may dime the bass volume.

What would I gain by running the bass with less volume - frankly I'd rather have the bass work, volumewise, flat out and the amp just, well make it loud enough for the room (I'm talking no PA assistance for this)?

The views you guys would be very welcome, please.

My last gig involved a mix of Bongo 5HHp (for songs where I wanted to fill the room with bass sound - especially slow ballads) and Classic Ray (for songs where there was any possibility of slap requirement or where I wanted a classic MM sound) - seemed to work very well - plenty of compliments, particularly from a couple of bass players there.

But this volume issue bugs me, so over to you guys - your advice would be appreciated

 

[adouglas]

I think you answered your own question. If you start out with the volume dimed (as lots of players routinely do) then you have nowhere to go but down.

I haven't been able to detect any significant difference in tone from using part volume vs. full volume.

TI usually set my amp so that the input starts to go into the clip area when I play hard with the bass guitar on full volume - the output on the amp so it's a bit too loud in the mix - then I pull back the bass guitar volume so it's mixed about right - but I can turn up for those moments later in the set when the drummers adrenaline gets to boiling point and the guitarist feels he has to turn up to still be 'out front ' -

 

[bass cowboy]

I think you answered your own question. If you start out with the volume dimed (as lots of players routinely do) then you have nowhere to go but down.

I haven't been able to detect any significant difference in tone from using part volume vs. full volume.

I agree. I generally dime the volume control and adjust my amp for as loud as I will need to play during a gig, then back down the volume control to give me some headroom.

 

[Elad_E]

as far as I know (and I'm no electronic eng.) the voulme knob has no affect on tone in an active bass. on passive basses it does mellow out and smoothens the tone abit IME/IMO.

 

[syciprider]

I run mine wide open so my synth tracks good and my overdrive pedal gets real saturated. My overall volume is controlled by an EBVPjr at the end of my chain.

 

[maddog]

if you're in a punk band, no reason not to dime it.

listen to and study some classical to find out what volume and dynamics can do for you.

 

[TSanders]

I haven't been able to detect any significant difference in tone from using part volume vs. full volume.

Spoken from a man who clearly doesnt run a tube amp.

 

[adouglas]

Spoken from a man who clearly doesnt run a tube amp.

True.

 

[MK Bass Weed]

In some cases...like a Tube Amp with a Tube in the Preamp stage...like I have, the active signal from the bass can overload it, clip and and sound like crap.

So, to me, using either the Bongo or the Ray, I don't dime it...as said in the other post, it ain't like a passive bass where the volume knob DOES effect the tone...I put my volume up on both the bass and amp where it doesn't clip and stupid loud, then back off the volume on the bass...as the 'other band members' love volume creep..and I obliterate them!

I just think people a advising Active MM owners not to overload their equipment...which is easily done on some amps if you don't have an 'active' input with some kind of dB cut.

 

[drTStingray]

Cheers guys, useful feedback.

if you're in a punk band, no reason not to dime it.

listen to and study some classical to find out what volume and dynamics can do for you.

Maddog, I guess that's right, and they don't even have volume controls, totally down to the playing dynamic and/or the number of instruments playing I generally play softer, play less notes or move the plucking hand to achieve dynamics - but I rarely play punk rock if I do, I just play very hard indeed - the 2 band Stingray can clatter beautifully if that's what you need!

Rather strangely, I hadn't even thought about tube amps - how do you guys with tube amps deal with this? Are you saying the signal from the MM bass dimed is too hot for a tube amp, or that you prefer to run the input level on the amp high for some reason, and need to reduce the bass volume to avoid too much overload? BTW I haven't really used a tube amp for much longer than I care to remember, so apologies if I'm asking a stupid question.

 

[maddog]

tube or solid state doesn't matter. It all depends on how hot an input signal it was designed for.

Where the active device does matter is how it handles too hot of a signal. Tubes do it a bit more gracefully resulting in some enjoyable grittiness then outright overtoned distortion. Solid state gets ugly fast.

 

[toomanyslurpees]

Hmmm, never thought about what other folks are doing, but I pretty much always play with my volume at 10 on the bass and never had a problem. I don't use any other active basses but I've been under the assumption that my couple Stingrays aren't that hot an output in comparison being that I do go into the passive input and have the gain usually about 12 oclock (on both my tube Ampeg and my SS Aguilar) I find my Stingrays are a similar output to my Pbass with a quarter pound pickup. can't comment on anything but Stingrays though, and obviously playing technique is a huge part of what works or you or doesn't.

 

[MK Bass Weed]

Rather strangely, I hadn't even thought about tube amps - how do you guys with tube amps deal with this? Are you saying the signal from the MM bass dimed is too hot for a tube amp, or that you prefer to run the input level on the amp high for some reason, and need to reduce the bass volume to avoid too much overload? BTW I haven't really used a tube amp for much longer than I care to remember, so apologies if I'm asking a stupid question.

I have an Ampeg B-15 and Ampeg SVT 3...- The B 15 can take it like nobody's business...the SVT 3..Clips quite easily, so I lay back on the Guitar Volume knob, and crank the amp...I also use a Peavey Pro-Bass 500 live and that Clips when I dig in too hard also..They're all a bit different...this isn't a drag, just what it is, for me anyways.

 

[Holdsg]

Everybody I know and every band I have been in experiences "volume creep" playing in a live setting. Usually its an arms race versus the geetars. So I agree 100% with givin yourself a little extra headroom if you can manage it (or buy a boost/preamp pedal) for those times you really need it, or want you simply to destroy nearby villages.

 

[cellkirk74]

I also use a Peavey Pro-Bass 500 live and that Clips when I dig in too hard also..

That's interesting! I use one of these too and think that the pad knob solves the clipping, but the amp to me sounds better in the passive mode. How di you set it up, especially the mids?

(The mid section is a little bigger on the pro bass 500)

 

[MK Bass Weed]

That's interesting! I use one of these too and think that the pad knob solves the clipping, but the amp to me sounds better in the passive mode. How di you set it up, especially the mids?

(The mid section is a little bigger on the pro bass 500)

Yes...I don't like the pad button as your mentioned, I prefer the 'non-pad tone'...I never use the boost buttons either!

The ParaEq section - Highs...flat...and I usually only touch the low mids and Mids knob with Narrow Eq settings (1 oclock)
Keeping low mids at 150...and Mids at aprox 750 (3 oclock)...and putting the boost around 1 oclock.

That's pretty much it..the head is great flat.and since I'm using a Ray5 HH or a Bongo HS...well...you know..I LOVE
the CONTOUR Knob though.

 

[cellkirk74]

Sounds good. I'll try that. I have mine pretty tweaked because I used it a lot with passive basses. But there is obviously no need for that with the EQ of a Stingray, Bongo or Big Al.

 

[drTStingray]

tube or solid state doesn't matter. It all depends on how hot an input signal it was designed for.

Where the active device does matter is how it handles too hot of a signal. Tubes do it a bit more gracefully resulting in some enjoyable grittiness then outright overtoned distortion. Solid state gets ugly fast.

I guess this is why us solid state users are careful to get the input set right. I would think most of us who use them do so because they sound clean and you just amplify the guitar rather than colouring it a la tube amp (as well as size/weight issues) - I suppose it depends on personal preference/music style played. I must admit that when using the switchable tube input stage on my amp, the thing starts to clip a lot easier than without it.

Anyway thanks for the comments - I guess the only reason not to dime the volume, provided your amp input and output are set correctly, is to keep some headroom to counter the dreaded volume creep or even to allow you to turn up for a ......... bass solo

 

[oli@bass]

to turn up for a ......... bass solo

kick in the.... OVERDRIVE!!!

 

[tkarter]

If your ears like dimed then by all means dime it. The superior sound comes from restraint.

EB doesn't send out a beat the guy that dimes his volume knob team.

tk