Do time and aging improve the quality and performance of a guitar?

[danielbravo]

Much is written and said about it. I've always wondered if the whole thing is applicable only to the instrument...
Certainly you can talk about the wood properties over the years and other related aspects. But if you have had a guitar or a bass for years with you, using it regularly, that same instrument-musician relationship ends up being as or more important than what happens with the natural aging of a guitar or a bass?

This has happened to me personally with my axis

 

[Pink]

Time and aging improves the players' familiarity with the particular instrument and its quirks for good or bad.

Honestly, time degrades the components of the guitar, decreasing quality...kinda like aging and the players' fingers, shoulders, hearing, cool rock moves on stage...

 

[danielbravo]

Time and aging improves the players' familiarity with the particular instrument and its quirks for good or bad.

Honestly, time degrades the components of the guitar, decreasing quality...kinda like aging and the players' fingers, shoulders, hearing, cool rock moves on stage...

Certainly, although I am referring to the performance of the instrument vs. the relationship between musician and instrument.
The first time I read about this from a musician's perspective was in an interview with Sting who was referring to his bass and how in his words it had substantially improved sound over the years.
In my opinion, there is a mixture of both, although I believe that the relationship between a musician and an instrument over time ends up being more important.

 

[jayjayjay]

I think the age aspect really only applies to acoustic instruments, not electric. In fact, there's a video out recently on YouTube where a guy, trying to test the impact of various woods on the tone of his electric, discovers that it's really only the pickup and spacing from strings that defines the instrument's tone. He went so far as to construct a "guitar" from a set of strings suspended between two engine blocks (no neck!), with the pickups mounted fixed on a board in the position same position and height as his pro-level telecaster. The tone was almost identical.

I'm betting that, to the extent the perception in tone on an aged electric isn't in one's head, it has more to do with changes in pickup height over time, due to setup changes and fine tuning the instrument. I have no doubt Sting improved the sound of his instrument over the years, probably due to tweaks to setup, pickup swaps/adjustments, plus plain old experience and developing technique, rather than his instrument aging.

Acoustic guitars, on the other hand, almost always improve in tone with age, and as the instrument "breaks in" due to playing. There, it's the movement of organic wood from plucking strings and sound resonating off the body that's generating the tone. Wood gets harder as it ages, and conforms to steady pressure with subtle shape changes. Because these materials are directly responsible for producing the tone - as opposed to an electronic pickup and amplifier for an electric - aging will have a much more significant impact.

 

[danielbravo]

I think the age aspect really only applies to acoustic instruments, not electric. In fact, there's a video out recently on YouTube where a guy, trying to test the impact of various woods on the tone of his electric, discovers that it's really only the pickup and spacing from strings that defines the instrument's tone. He went so far as to construct a "guitar" from a set of strings suspended between two engine blocks (no neck!), with the pickups mounted fixed on a board in the position same position and height as his pro-level telecaster. The tone was almost identical.

I'm betting that, to the extent the perception in tone on an aged electric isn't in one's head, it has more to do with changes in pickup height over time, due to setup changes and fine tuning the instrument. I have no doubt Sting improved the sound of his instrument over the years, probably due to tweaks to setup, pickup swaps/adjustments, plus plain old experience and developing technique, rather than his instrument aging.

Acoustic guitars, on the other hand, almost always improve in tone with age, and as the instrument "breaks in" due to playing. There, it's the movement of organic wood from plucking strings and sound resonating off the body that's generating the tone. Wood gets harder as it ages, and conforms to steady pressure with subtle shape changes. Because these materials are directly responsible for producing the tone - as opposed to an electronic pickup and amplifier for an electric - aging will have a much more significant impact.

I think you're right, although there will always be those who refer to the aging process, especially of woods... I hadn't taken into account the technical aspect of modifying an instrument, you have a good point there. Thank you for your kind reply.

 

[xjbebop]

All I can say is that I've acquired quite a few 'previously owned' Albert Lee guitars, and that the older ones that have obviously been played a lot definitely have more 'mojo' than the newer ones... so yes, I can tell a difference there.

 

[jayjayjay]

All I can say is that I've acquired quite a few 'previously owned' Albert Lee guitars, and that the older ones that have obviously been played a lot definitely have more 'mojo' than the newer ones... so yes, I can tell a difference there.

It occurs to me that electronic components, such as capacitors, do drift in value over time as they age - one of the reasons that servicing old amplifiers often requires changing out the caps. I wonder if that isn't some of it - do ALs have tone caps? If so, I can see how as the instrument ages, the cap values may change, altering the tone. Also I wonder if there aren't subtle changes in the magnetic field and/or winding resistance.

I'm still skeptical that tone shift on an electric is impacted by the wood, at least in a significantly audible way. It isn't just wood that ages, though.

 

[Rbg]

Electrolytic caps do, film/ceramic caps don’t. At least to a degree that can be noticed without pretty accurate measurements. So no, tone caps do not change their value especially to be audible. Same go for the winging resistance. Magnetic field strength theoretically can change, but I doubt we would be able to hear it

 

[elvisdog]

I had an experience a few years ago where I took my National Tricone to a 3 month residency in the woods as my only guitar. An hour a day and that thing opened up amazingly -- not louder but sweeter, with a more complex sound. There's not a ton of wood on that thing and I don't think 3 months of aging did anything to it. What I think is that (a) I got really used to playing the thing & got better at it and (b) the various bits and pieces seated themselves more solidly as I played & it vibrated. If aluminum, brass and chrome can play in, then I do think an electric can go through a similar transformation over time. It may just be that all the pieces fit more soundly & firmly together -- unless the wood wasn't aged right, in which case all kinds of crazy stuff can happen as the wood dries out and stabilizes. I do not believe this to be a problem with EBMM guitars.

 

[danielbravo]

It has always been said that time subtracts moisture from wood, it is something that is even taken into account (among other things) when manufacturers select wood. Some musicians refer to this aspect especially when dealing with old instruments.
The whole aspect of electronics of course must have a role in this regard. I've had an axis for a little over 15 years and somehow or another its sound has gotten warmer. I have never taken into account any particular aspect that explains this matter. Just the subject has always interested me, especially when you hear or read about some old fender telecaster guitars in particular. The same theme of wood always appears...

 

[xjbebop]

It occurs to me that electronic components, such as capacitors, do drift in value over time as they age - one of the reasons that servicing old amplifiers often requires changing out the caps. I wonder if that isn't some of it - do ALs have tone caps? If so, I can see how as the instrument ages, the cap values may change, altering the tone. Also I wonder if there aren't subtle changes in the magnetic field and/or winding resistance.

I'm still skeptical that tone shift on an electric is impacted by the wood, at least in a significantly audible way. It isn't just wood that ages, though.

You are correct about electrical components aging.
However, on a couple of my oldest, I modded / replaced the electronics & pups. The instruments themselves still ooze that well-played mojo, in feel and voicing...
I wouldn't say that this happens with every instrument, but my experience tells me that it -can- happen.

 

[pureanalog]

We just get used to the guitar more. I really doubt anything changes overtime.

 

[71guitarsmith]

Most of my guitars are from the '70s and 80's when I grew up. Overall my personal feelings are that the best guitar built in the 70s and '80s are not close to the quality of even some of the cheaper guitars produced today in whatever country when it comes to fit and finish.

But there are some advantages to older instruments.

For example, I purchased a new Gretch made in Indonesia for $400 and was amazed at the quality of workmanship, fitting and overall value. The hardware was not great at all but easily replaced with quality aftermarket ones for yet another few hundred dollars. That was cheap guitar and it's fantastic with a few upgrades.

However...

Older instruments: for me It's all about the wear and miles on older guitars that make them comfortable and the wood feels settled for a lack of a better description. The time the instruments have been played rounds the fretboards, oils the boards, and everything feels broken in, and they are what they are at that point. If you play a new guitar for 4000+ hours (solid 12 hours a day for a year) you start to get that exact feeling as an earlier era build. They are not tight feelings and just feel comfortable even if it is new to the player.

They do not sound better, just feel better and that makes for a happy experience reinforcing positive feelings overall with that instrument. I suppose an analogy would best be described as old leather boots that feel great to wear. Your new boots are built 100% better in all sorts of ways but do not feel as familiar and broken in immediately. But those old boots are so great to wear even though they slip a little and water gets in.

I have heard that some base guitar builders actually put their instruments on a vibrating machine that just runs for months to try and replicate the time of use in a held position. Thats something right? manufactured settling these days is just amazing if it really helps.