Does the Silent Circuit affect tone in anyway?

[whitestrat]

I'm thinking of a Silhouette Special fitted with my favourite Fender Custom 69 pickups. That's tone heaven right there, and if the SS can remove noise, even better! but does the SS affect the tone in anyway? You know that there's really nothing like the purity of a single coil, and most noiseless pickups (EVEN Kinmans) lack a certain dynamic that pure singles can provide.

I used to be a Kinman fanatic, and have learnt otherwise since then. I still stand by them, but it depends on what you want form the pup.

So, I'm totally into the Fender CS65 pickups, but those aren't sold separately from a CS65 guitar, and the closest to it now on the market is the CS69 pickups wound to Abigail Ybarra's specs.

I'm just worried that the SS might affect the tone negatively. Otherwise, I'll buy the SS, remove the Silent Circuit, and just plonk in the 69s...

Imagine... a SSS guitar built by EBMM... Oh wow...

 

[D.K.]

Well, to my ears the SS deffinitely does affect tone. It gives the single coils that slight active PU character - a bit rounder, but sounding not as naturally and twangy as with the battery out. So on my silo special I had a year back I always made sure to take the block battery out - since the stock PUs were not that noisy anyway.

Now I can just guess how this combo will sound with the 69' Customs, but I would expect it to sound a tad more sterile (but without the hum, of course).

 

[robelinda2]

Ok, i did exactly that. My hardtail rolls burgundy silo special SSS has Custom shop 69's in it, and the silent circuit makes a good difference, as the 69's arent reverse wound so you get noise, but not with the silent circuit. the tone IS magic.


edit, did you say 'Imagine... a SSS guitar built by EBMM'? dude, AL AL AL AL!!!

 

[candid_x]

Rob, only the middle pickup is reverse wound. So then, there's no quack in positions 2 and 4, and those positions hum with the 69's?

I'd advise trying out the stock Special SSS pickups awhile before replacing them. I was set to drop Fralin Vintage Hots into mine, but liked the stock ones so much, I left them in.

I think the SC does affect the guitars tone slightly, and for that reason I left the battery out unless circumstances created lots of hum. Then I carefully A/B'd back and forth with and without a battery, and behold - I like the sound better with the battery in! Slightly warmer or fuller sounding to my ears. So now I keep both SS's loaded with batteries, and love the Silent Circuit.

My stock SSS has become my #1. Never thought anything would ever bump my HSS out of that position.

 

[beej]

I don't think it affects the tone. If there's any audible difference, it's slightly more fidelity from the lack of hum.

I've spent quite a bit of time with it and have removed/added it to a few guitars. I read through the patent quite closely and like the approach. So much so that I've now put them in my old AL, Morse and Y2D.

The SC isn't active. It doesn't make your pickups active. All it does is take a dummy coil and buffer it so that there's no load or inductance from the dummy coil on your pickups. The isolated output from this is run through the ground of your pickups so that the noise from the SC is out of phase with the noise of your pickups. When you remove the battery the SC is out of the circuit and the wires from the SC appear to be at ground, as if it wasn't wired up at all.

It will work with any noisy pickups, though how well it works depends on the placement under your pickguard and the specifics of the pickup. Getting them is tough as EBMM doesn't sell them. But you already have one so that's good (I try and buy all of the ones for sale that I can find). Another good option if you have a trem guitar is the Suhr backplate system. It also works like a charm. Though it's more expensive.

But again, my two cents is that it doesn't affect your sound. There's no loading from the circuit and it doesn't make your pickups active. All it does is add inverted noise to your signal which get subtracted out.

 

[candid_x]

I don't think it affects the tone. If there's any audible difference, it's slightly more fidelity from the lack of hum.

I was thinking about how hum/noise can give the effect or impression of an edge to the tone, and so removing that edge could give the impression that the SC is taking something from the tone, which in a way it is - the noise! So what you're saying about "slightly more fidelity" rings true for me.

 

[whitestrat]

edit, did you say 'Imagine... a SSS guitar built by EBMM'? dude, AL AL AL AL!!!

Hahahaha... I knew you'd plug in the AL... But I'm looking for something that won't put my eye out, and comes in Rosewood...

 

[whitestrat]

I think the SC does affect the guitars tone slightly, and for that reason I left the battery out unless circumstances created lots of hum. Then I carefully A/B'd back and forth with and without a battery, and behold - I like the sound better with the battery in! Slightly warmer or fuller sounding to my ears. So now I keep both SS's loaded with batteries, and love the Silent Circuit.

Wait, so the Ss only works when powered, and when it's not, the guitar still produces a tone? And not an open circuit?

 

[beej]

Wait, so the Ss only works when powered, and when it's not, the guitar still produces a tone? And not an open circuit?

That's right

The output of the silent circuit is from an op-amp which you connect to the ground of your pickups. When it's powered, you get a signal (out of phase noise, but buffered by the op-amp so as to not cause any trouble mixing with your pickups). When it's not powered, it's a slight resistance to ground (not enough to be an issue).

So with the battery out, the "ground" lead of your pickups is basically grounded, the way they would be if there was no Silent Circuit there.

 

[candid_x]

The difference (other than hum) with the battery out is so negligible, I have to question whether the difference is only in my head. I'm pretty convinced after my last A/B-ing that it's real, and I was surprised that I liked the sound/tone better with the battery in. Very contrary to my usual purism.

At any rate, White, I certainly wouldn't let it worry you. And as I've already said, give the stock pups an honest try before swapping them out. You might be very pleasantly surprised.

 

[GHWelles]

You know what is a nice pickup, Seymour Duncan Antiquity Surfer Two's. They would probably sound good with the silent circuit because they have the strong Alnico 5 magnets.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I agree with Beej, insofar as I have noticed no difference betweenSS operative and SS inoperative.

(But my hearing is not as good as it was due to playing infront of a Marshall set up, for too long and too loud).

 

[robelinda2]

Candid, i get buzz out of all the positions with my 69's, until i switch on the silent circuit. stock pickups are going back in soon.

 

[candid_x]

Candid, i get buzz out of all the positions with my 69's, until i switch on the silent circuit. stock pickups are going back in soon.

Interesting. That suggests you're right about the middle pup not being reverse wound. That would also mean there's no out of phase quack in positions 2 and 4. I'd have to ask, what's the point of using the 69's then? I guess they must have their own something special.

I'm looking for your rolls Special but haven't found it. Is the rolls maple or rosewood? That signed black AL looks freakin' crazy from a distance!

Good on ya, droppin' the originals back in. They got something goin' on.

 

[beej]

You should be able to wire the SC up with non reverse wound middles.

Normally you solder the blue lead to the ground of the bridge & neck pickups and the purple to the ground of the middle. Here, you'd use the blue to the middle's ground wire instead.

 

[robelinda2]

Yes there is the quack tones, they are just noisy. I prefer the originals, I did a gig with my Dargie and Rolls, Dargie won.

No pics handy of my Rolls.

 

[candid_x]

When you get a chance, let's see it! Great color.

Maybe I'm all wet about the middle reversed wound pup, if it still quacks. Dunno.

 

[robelinda2]

i was surprised myself when i had them installed, i thought i had done my homework but i guess i hadnt. I was choosing between the Fat 50's and the 69's, both sets dont have a reverse wound middle, I just assumed they would, and sure enough when i played them later on in strats they were noisy, i guess i hadnt picked up on that before. stock pups are fine.

 

[beej]

Maybe I'm all wet about the middle reversed wound pup, if it still quacks. Dunno.

Hey Bruce- a non-reverse wound middle will still quack. Signal will sound the same, it's just that the noise will also double.

With the reverse wound middle, the polarity is reversed on the magnet and the windings around the coil are reversed. These two opposites (magnetic field and winding) lead to a current that's in-phase with the other coils. However- stray noise that's picked up by each (the windings act like antennae, picking up stray electrical noise) is out of phase (b/c the windings are backward). So when you combine the middle with bridge or neck coils, the guitar signal is in phase and the noise is out of phase. Presto, the noise is cancelled out. Same principle as a humbucker.

 

[candid_x]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up, Beej. I knew it canceled hum but I didn't know it doubled hum if it wasn't reverse wound, or that it didn't effect quack.