Effects Loop

[maalourm]

HI there fellow EBMM'ers, I'm new to this forum, and fairly new to MM as well. Recently bought a Luke in radiance red with piezzo.

What's teh verdict on using the effects loop on your amps to run the effects through vs going through the effects first then into your amps? Any thoughts on that would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Rony.

 

[beej]

Your amp is really two amps, right- a pre-amp (boosts your signal, gives it tone) and a power-amp (gives you speaker-blowing volume). The effects loop is smack in the midde of those stages.

Generally speaking effects like compression and distortion want to go in the signal chain before the pre-amp whereas effects like delay, chorus, flange want to go after the pre-amp - so in the effects loop.

However it's all about experimentation, and the order you chain things in will really affect your sound. There's less signal going in to and more gain in the pre-amp stage, so any noise in your signal (like hum from your effects) will really be noticeable when you plug things directly into the preamp. Sometimes this sounds great.

Play around! And congrats on the Luke!

 

[Terry Hayes]

As Beej pointed out (along with other good info), experiment.

After years of having a fairly involved rack of FX, I find that adjusting the send levels on FX and on the loop of the amp to be a very involved process. If I get my amp set up just right so that it is very responsive, inserting a processor in the loop really makes it much more difficult to keep the same balance of preamp gain vs. power amp gain. Add to this, the fact that it is necessary to adjust carefully to preserve a good signal-noise ratio makes things even more tricky.

As a result of wanting to keep things simple, I went back to using pedals (almost exclusively). Even though flange, chorus, delay, reverb, etc. are commonly placed in the loop, I find that if you are using pedals for these effects (instead of rackmount processors) they sound best in front of the amp even though many will work fine in the loop.

Some of the best chorus sounds of all time were done with a pedal into the front end of an amp. Stompbox FX, many times, have more character than their high end, rackmount counterparts. Similarly, Univibes, flangers, and phasers tend to sound better in front of an amp than in the loop. That is not to say they won't work in the loop of course.

Delay usually sounds best AFTER distortion. So, if you get your gain sounds from the amp, you will likely need to put the delay in the loop. In my case, I have a stompbox delay on my pedalboard before the amp, as well as a rackmount delay that is the only thing in the loop of my amp. The stompbox delay sounds great with clean tones, and also can be used when I get overdrive from a pedal on the pedalboard. I use the amp for high-gain tones, and therefore have to use the rackmount delay for those sounds.

When using a loop, it is usually necessary to add some type of switcher and/or line mixer in a loop because, with most FX processors, your unaffected tone is still going through lots of extra circuitry and maybe even A/D - D/A convertors - even when the effect is bypassed! If your amp has a parallel FX loop and can be bypassed you don't need to add the switcher or mixer (unless you have more than one effect in the loop and want contol over each unit).

Here are a few things to consider.

1. Search for the most transparent FX processors you can find if you plan on putting them in the amp's effect loop. Remember that you may need to add a switcher and/or line mixer if you really want to add FX without compromising your basic tone in any way.

2. If you want a particular effect, try to find a pedal that will do the job. They usually have more character. And, although anything placed in your signal path will affect the tone, pedals in my opinion do it in a musical way, as opposed to the harsh, non-musical, feel-destroying effect that some rackmount processors have on your tone.

3. The above suggestion is subjective of course. If you are going for a very pristine sound, then many times, rackmount processors are the way to go.

4. Even though stompboxes sound cool, it is always a good idea to be able to bypass them so that you can get the pure sound of guitar into amp when you want it. Using a simple box with a single bypass loop allows you to bypass all your pedals with one stomp. This can be a lifesaver if, on a gig, one pedal goes bad as you can easily switch the whole string of pedals out of your signal path and keep playing.

5. If you are debating using a multi-FX unit for all of your FX, these probably sound best in the loop. Unless it is the floor type, which often incorporate stompbox style FX and digital FX processing in one unit. If you are only using the delays and reverbs, a unit like this may sound best in the loop of your amp.

Placing your FX in the loop vs. the front end of the amp really depends on what FX you are using, and where your distortion tones come from.

I hope this info is helpful (sorry for the long post!).

Terry

 

[tommyindelaware]

what kind of amp ya got ????

HI there fellow EBMM'ers, I'm new to this forum, and fairly new to MM as well. Recently bought a Luke in radiance red with piezzo.

What's teh verdict on using the effects loop on your amps to run the effects through vs going through the effects first then into your amps? Any thoughts on that would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Rony.

 

[maalourm]

Thanks a lot for the detailed responses, very helpful. I use pedals of course, never liked FX processors, always been a pedal guy. I have never really used the effects lopp on any of my amps in the past, always go into the pedals and straight into the amp. I might play around with the effects loop soon, but your responses have convinced me to stick with what works.

Any thoughts on the volume pedal? Right now the volume pedal (EB of course)is in the signal chain between the effects and the amp, is that the only or best place for it?

By the way, in case anyone was wondering based on the level of my questions, I am NOT a newbie guitarist by any means, been playing to almost 20 years, but I am one of those that has never taken the time to understand the importance of having the proper rig and the proper setup, I just play.

Thanks for your help.
Rony.

 

[maalourm]

I have a Fender Hot Rod Deville (2x12).

 

[tommyindelaware]

they have a series effects loop......as opposed to a parallel.....
so your preamp signal will run 100% thru what ever effects you will be using.....so you will have to mix the amp sound w/ each effect as they occur in the chain.

 

[beej]

> Any thoughts on the volume pedal?

Yeah, it's the same kind of thing- advantages both ways.

In front of the signal chain (preamp or distortion pedal) it acts as the volume knob on your guitar would- affecting overall signal from your guitar. You can use it to drive the amp and if you play with a lot of gain you can use it to clean up/dirty your sound easily.

In the effects loop, it's more of an overall volume control- it won't shape your sound at all, but will affect the overall signal level so you can easily adjust stage volume, boost for a solo, etc.

 

[kbaim]

Luke w/ piezo

(btw there's a new Luke Rad Red at GC Fountain Valley, CA tagged at if anyone needs one)

Something Steve Morse has done forever is to run one amp completely dry and always on, then blend in (courtesy of EB volume pedal) a second wet amp with effects. No change in volume, just effects like delay, etc. to color the tone.

Of course most of us don't have 2 of the same amps.

Just lots of guitars.

 

[maalourm]

> (btw there's a new Luke Rad Red at GC Fountain Valley, CA tagged at if anyone needs one)

Wish I'd known that a few months ago, could've saved a few bucks.

Thanks for all the input, I guess I have a lot of options to try out this weekend.

Rony.

 

[beej]

> Something Steve Morse has done forever is to run one amp completely dry
> and always on, then blend in (courtesy of EB volume pedal) a second wet amp
> with effects

Great approach, and nobody sounds better than him doing this.

I've been meaning for a while to try this at home- split the signal at the FX send and mix the direct signal with a signal fed to effects & volume pedal, feeding the mixed signal back into the FX return. Would get you there without needing two amps.

Hmmm ... I've got an old Marshall 4x12 that I don't really use anymore. It's wired in stereo so each half of the cab takes a separate input. I could just take the preamp signal from my old rack and and run it direct into one side of the stereo power amp and cabinet, then take the other half of the signal, run it through effects and volume, then into the other half of the power amp/cab.

Some homework for this weekend I think ...

 

[kbaim]

Wish I'd known that a few months ago, could've saved a few bucks.

No piezo on Fountain Valley one.

 

[tommyindelaware]

i just finished....15 min. ago....loading a 4x12 cab w/4 vintage 30's.......1 wet...3 dry....for smaller gigs. gonna try it tonight in baltimore.....
by the way....your wet amp doesn't need to be anywhere near as powerful as your dry amp......



for

> Something Steve Morse has done forever is to run one amp completely dry
> and always on, then blend in (courtesy of EB volume pedal) a second wet amp
> with effects

Great approach, and nobody sounds better than him doing this.

I've been meaning for a while to try this at home- split the signal at the FX send and mix the direct signal with a signal fed to effects & volume pedal, feeding the mixed signal back into the FX return. Would get you there without needing two amps.

Hmmm ... I've got an old Marshall 4x12 that I don't really use anymore. It's wired in stereo so each half of the cab takes a separate input. I could just take the preamp signal from my old rack and and run it direct into one side of the stereo power amp and cabinet, then take the other half of the signal, run it through effects and volume, then into the other half of the power amp/cab.

Some homework for this weekend I think ...

 

[beej]

Cool Tommy. Let me know how it all sounds in a single cabinet. Good luck with the gig!