Off Topic Flextone™ III

[Hendog]

As a follow up to our "favorite gigging amp" thread, I wanted to touch on the Line 6 Flextone III.

Almost everyone picked a semi-high end tube amp. But more than one of you picked the Flextone.

Does this amp realy have the tone?

 

[grumpyoldman]

I would be one of those who mentioned the Flex III - I have the XL version, which is a 2X12 combo. I have also owned a Flex III Plus, which is a single 12 combo with stereo amplification (the second amp kicks in if you connect a second 8ohm cabinet). I traded it to the other guitarist in the band, and now we both have similar amps - he doesn't have any EBMMs though (at least not yet....).

Whether or not you like the sound of Line 6 products is something no one can decide for you - you have to try one out yourself to see if you are able to take the sound in your head and program it into the amp with the available features. I can rave tirelessly on how great my Flex III is, but that doesn't mean you will find it to be the same in your situation.

In my case, our cover band plays a variety of material from the 80s 90s and the current decade, and we strive to replicate (as closely as possible) some of those tunes. This would mean having access on stage to several different amps and several different effects pedals, in all sorts of combinations throughtout the gig, to be able to have a chance at replicating the music (tonally, I don't get close to most of them from a performance point of view). The Flex III lets me have just about any amp I want, with up to 36 presets of amps and effects, available at my feet - I use an FBV (long footboard) for the manipulation of the presets.

Sound company people are like musicians - without putting a negative spin on the moniker, some are tube snobs and just will not entertain the idea that any newer technology can replace tubes (valves, for some of our fellow forumites). To me, the convenience of plug and play (no waiting for tubes to warm up before going to standby mode before going live) and relative ease of transport (as in no where near as fragile as tube heads or combos) added to the tonal pallette just can't be beat. Those without the tube snob prejudice (again, not intending any negative connotation) are usually shocked by the accuracy of the modelling ability of the amp, and with the DIs. You can send a signal direct to the board and turn the combo master volume down, have no volume onstage but the FOH gets the full package. That feature works two ways - not only is the sound person able to set FOH without the injection of the stage volume, but if for any reason the volume onstage needs to be adjusted during full band soundcheck, it will NOT affect the FOH signal. The only way any volume from the amp effects the FOH signal volume is when the volume pedal is used (and from my point of view, that's the way it should be....).

There are cons of course, but only two that I have experienced first hand, and one rumoured but never encountered by me - too few to change my mind about relying on Line 6 amps. I currently have the Flex III as well as the Vetta II (2X12 combo version), a POD 2.0, a Spider III (2X10 - not the tube version) and a Bass POD XT Pro (gotta play my SR5 through something, right?). I have the FBV longboard, and also had an FBV shortboard, but the other guitarist has that with my old Flex III Plus.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me and I will toss more info your way.

 

[Hendog]

I would be one of those who mentioned the Flex III - I have the XL version, which is a 2X12 combo. I have also owned a Flex III Plus, which is a single 12 combo with stereo amplification (the second amp kicks in if you connect a second 8ohm cabinet). I traded it to the other guitarist in the band, and now we both have similar amps - he doesn't have any EBMMs though (at least not yet....).

Whether or not you like the sound of Line 6 products is something no one can decide for you - you have to try one out yourself to see if you are able to take the sound in your head and program it into the amp with the available features. I can rave tirelessly on how great my Flex III is, but that doesn't mean you will find it to be the same in your situation.

In my case, our cover band plays a variety of material from the 80s 90s and the current decade, and we strive to replicate (as closely as possible) some of those tunes. This would mean having access on stage to several different amps and several different effects pedals, in all sorts of combinations throughtout the gig, to be able to have a chance at replicating the music (tonally, I don't get close to most of them from a performance point of view). The Flex III lets me have just about any amp I want, with up to 36 presets of amps and effects, available at my feet - I use an FBV (long footboard) for the manipulation of the presets.

Sound company people are like musicians - without putting a negative spin on the moniker, some are tube snobs and just will not entertain the idea that any newer technology can replace tubes (valves, for some of our fellow forumites). To me, the convenience of plug and play (no waiting for tubes to warm up before going to standby mode before going live) and relative ease of transport (as in no where near as fragile as tube heads or combos) added to the tonal pallette just can't be beat. Those without the tube snob prejudice (again, not intending any negative connotation) are usually shocked by the accuracy of the modelling ability of the amp, and with the DIs. You can send a signal direct to the board and turn the combo master volume down, have no volume onstage but the FOH gets the full package. That feature works two ways - not only is the sound person able to set FOH without the injection of the stage volume, but if for any reason the volume onstage needs to be adjusted during full band soundcheck, it will NOT affect the FOH signal. The only way any volume from the amp effects the FOH signal volume is when the volume pedal is used (and from my point of view, that's the way it should be....).

There are cons of course, but only two that I have experienced first hand, and one rumoured but never encountered by me - too few to change my mind about relying on Line 6 amps. I currently have the Flex III as well as the Vetta II (2X12 combo version), a POD 2.0, a Spider III (2X10 - not the tube version) and a Bass POD XT Pro (gotta play my SR5 through something, right?). I have the FBV longboard, and also had an FBV shortboard, but the other guitarist has that with my old Flex III Plus.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me and I will toss more info your way.

Thanks for all of the great info!

#1. I assume the 2x12 is worth the extra $100, but is it worth the extra weight? I am also lugging around my 50+lb Fender Hot Rod Deluxe.

#2. What are the cons you were talking about?

 

[the24thfret]

#1. I assume the 2x12 is worth the extra $100, but is it worth the extra weight? I am also lugging around my 50+lb Fender Hot Rod Deluxe.

A 2x12 will ALWAYS destroy a 1x12 in output/tone/awesomeness. I'd say it's worth it. You can always get some casters on it.

I've played the Flex III in stores but can't decide if I really like it or not. I need to bring it to a studio with a band.

 

[grumpyoldman]

Thanks for all of the great info!

#1. I assume the 2x12 is worth the extra $100, but is it worth the extra weight? I am also lugging around my 50+lb Fender Hot Rod Deluxe.

#2. What are the cons you were talking about?

I found that the XL (2x12) was about 10 lbs heavier than the Plus (1x12) - I'm not sure what the actual weights are, I did the old "lift" test instead of getting the actual numbers on weights.

These are the cons:

1) Electrical power for the amp CANNOT be shared with anything more powerful than another guitar amp. If you share hydro with a power amp, particularly one driving subs, or if you plug into a circuit that is used to control lighting, the power supply in the amp will brown out. As the DSP is basically a computer, it reacts like a computer to a brown out - it reboots. We use a distro board plugged into 220 supply when available, and I ensure that I get a leg that isn't tied to power amps or lighting. When we don't have direct involvement in the electrical set up for a stage, I make a point of checking the supply line and how the power is distributed.
(This is a con that affects all amps of all types, but manifests itself differently with digital amps than it does with tube amps)

2) The DSP uses "virtual pots" for assigning values to your settings - as a result any movement of the knobs/pots can be interpreted by the DSP as a change in value for that particular setting, and instead of what you originally saved, the position of the knob as it sits on the amp will be what the DSP interprets as your change. I zero out all my knobs when I play, relying on the settings as I had saved them. On occasion, and at very high stage volume (which we all tend to try to avoid in order to save our ears) the combo will vibrate enough to cause the DSP to interpret the slight movement of the knobs as a change in setting, and the signal will drop (although I zero them all out, it never mutes my signal) a bit. When this happens, a quick tap on the preset button restores the original signal. Oddly enough, it only happens on clean signal settings, never on anything with distortion. We play so few songs that are all clean for my settings, that I have no problem hovering near the FBV controller to tap the button if necessary.
(This is apparently inherent in the Vetta combos as well - but didn't stop me from grabbing a Vetta when I had a chance)

3) (I have never noticed this) - A large number of Flex III owners complained that the speakers didn't "breathe" at all, and that the cabinet sounded like there was a heavy blanket tossed over it. I haven't had any complaints - my own or bandmates - about anything like this, but if you check out any old Line 6 Forum entries, you will see these comments.

The combos are open backed, and have neutral voiced speakers to enable the cabinet modelling to work properly. My suspicions on the last point is that those who have concerns about the "blanket effect" may not have taken the modelling into consideration. Or, as is more likely, everyone's ears are different and someone mentions something and the rest pile on......

Everyone is different, and we all have different tolerances for "cons" - none of these will cause me to bail on my Line 6 products though. The benefits far outweigh the cons as far as I am concerned.

Anyway, as mentioned earlier, feel free to PM for any detailed info on anything I have provided for your consideration.

 

[grumpyoldman]

...and for the record, I am not associated with Line 6, nor am I associated with any dealer of Line 6.

In a manner similar to my EBMM collection, I am just a happy user of Line 6 products.

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

I am a huge fan of Line 6 amps on the whole. I own several Duoverbs, and they are great for all the reasons listed above. The DI's sound superb, no warm up, constant sound gig to gig, and the ability to use pre-sets.

My esteemed forum colleague Grumpyoldman gave me some excellent advice on the Flex III and I bought one. However I just could not get a good sound out of it. Maybe I should have tried it for longer, I don't know - but it was just not happening. Shame, as they are so Flexible! That said the Duoverb's nail it for me every time. The thought of gigging something as fragile as a valve amp scares me! Plus with the Line 6's you get so much control with the FBV floorboards.

The thing is about Line 6 is that most guitarists fear change! No valves?!?! It can't sound good!

And all this nonsense about digital amps not cutting through - I have never found it to be a problem. 120w of digital power!

 

[Slingy]

PodXT into the power amp of an HRD 1x12 is also a very good sounding solution. I used mine with an extention cabinet and a tilt back stand so basically a 2x12.

 

[ShaneV]

PodXT into the power amp of an HRD 1x12 is also a very good sounding solution. I used mine with an extention cabinet and a tilt back stand so basically a 2x12.

I ran a Johnson J Station (early competitor to the Pod) into a Crate Powerblock into a 2x12 for a little while. It was so light and easy to transport, then the crate randomly died on me

 

[candid_x]

My first attempt at modeling was through a new Flex 2 or 3 (I forget which). I got it as a backup and was really hoping to like it, and find a SS/digi amp I could live with. Unfortunately, I could not, and sold it a week later.

fwiw..

If small gigs and light gear interests you, you might consider an upgraded (12" hole JD Newell cab and Tung-Sol 6V6's, speaker of your preference) Fender SCXD. It has some fundamental amp voices, a few surprisingly real sounding and very useful, powered by a couple 6V6's and a 12AX7. It also has a slew of effects, again, some which are surprisingly rich sounding. It's a blast of an amp. I know of one for sale for pretty cheap (not mine), if you or anyone's interested, PM me.

mine

 

[GWDavis28]

I use too have one and I sold it like a dope. I wished I hadn't now, it's a really great amp. If you have a chance to get one, jump on it.

Glenn |B)

 

[paranoid70]

I don't want to bash Line 6 in any way. But, head to head, pound for pound, (i.e. IMO) I would say that the 2x12 Fender Cybertwin Modeling amp gets much better tones than the Flextone III. My good friend had a Flextone and yeah it did do some things better like Flange and really heavy distortion. But, overall I think the Cybertwin sounds more organic... and has really killer Reverb. Plus it is not nearly as heavy.

Also, it looks awesome between two Silos.

 

[Shadowbox]

I use the Flextone III as my main gigging amp. 400 shows a year, and it has never broken down. The newer floorboards (as opposed to the ones they had with the Flextone I's) are also a huge improvement. They really are versatile. I create different patches at different volume levels and tonal personalities and use my Axis exclusively. I should also state that our sound man is very good and EQ's the amp like crazy to get decent tones. If the room is familiar, you play with a relatively low stage volume (our drummer uses a V-drum kit), and you have a good sound engineer, you should be OK.

The Line 6 stuff also works great into the DAW for recording applications. In a digital environment, for demo purposes, they are pretty great.

I will say this, though. In an analog environment, with an acoustic drum kit, they leave a bit to be desired. Real tube amps seem to suit me better here.

I suppose it comes down to this: will you be working primarily in a digital or analog environment?

Just my .02.

 

[luv]

I use the Flextone III as my main gigging amp. 400 shows a year...

that's insane man....when do you sleep?

 

[Smellybum]

i HAVE A FLEXTONE III - iT'S NO VALVE AMP!

But for the money (I think they're end of line as most places are selling them for 50% of what they were) I couldn't find fault, I sold about £800 worth fo rack gear and bought this amp, if you go to my you tube page there's a delayed/distorted clip of me playing my sub through a flextone - pretty good tone (I think) - and for the money can't go wrong.
THe line6 edit thing is pretty good loads of pro patches, - only moan is the foot controllers cost more than the amp right now - I only use mine for late nights when my kids are asleep - (Valve amps in my house are never below 8!) - so tranny is good

For the cash you can't go wrong, and they deliver great tones through my ball collection.

 

[grumpyoldman]

Also, it looks awesome between two Silos.

...Well let's face facts - a set of Silos like that would make just about anything look awesome....

 

[Shadowbox]

that's insane man....when do you sleep?

4 hours a night, generally. 5-6 if I'm real lucky!!!