Floating Trem Question

[squege]

I just wanted to get an idea from those who have their trems setup to float, how high can you pull up in pitch? 1/2 step or a full step, or something in between?
Also, for anybody who has a trem and piezo, I know standard setup calls for non-floating to get the best performance out of the piezo, but for those of you who do setup their trems to float, how much does the piezo performance suffer and how much is the most you can set up the trem to pull up and still maintain enough pressure on the saddles to handle basic acoustic-type strumming?
Thanks, JC.

 

[bkrumme]

All my JP's float, and they all have piezos. As far as pulling up, it goes a bit, at least a semitone, probably more. I find I don't really do too much extreme tremolo work.

As far as the piezo, just don't divebomb and you should be fine.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I would be reluctant to set up a MM trem to float so that it raises more than 1/2 step.
It doesn't suit my style of playing and find that doing bends around the 12th fret and higher, my fingers slip under the adjacent strings.
I recently set one up for a fellow knucklehead and he seems a lot happier with the trem not floating quite so much. All down to preference I guess.

I took some photos at the recent Music Live of a Luke trem from the factory and it wasn't floating really high - yet when I played Brian Kelners Luke(one of the demonstrators) his was. As I say - all down to preference.

 

[squege]

Forgot to mention in my original post that I'm talking about my Luke; not sure if that changes the discussion to only other Luke owners or if the JP trem operates under the same guidelines.
Thanks, JC.

 

[PaoloGilberto]

hi guys,
on the JP the floating adjustment is made only from those 2 metal studs under the 2 E strings ? or you have to adjust the springs too?

sorry for the Q on your thread

thanks

 

[PeteDuBaldo]

Forgot to mention in my original post that I'm talking about my Luke; not sure if that changes the discussion to only other Luke owners or if the JP trem operates under the same guidelines.
Thanks, JC.

You may have some degree of success with the piezo if you set the Luke bridge up for floating, but as soon as you use the tremolo the piezo sound will disappear - it has to do with string pressure over the piezo saddle, and setting the Luke up for floating reduces the angle and pressure. That is why piezo Luke models are not set up floating.

hi guys,
on the JP the floating adjustment is made only from those 2 metal studs under the 2 E strings ? or you have to adjust the springs too?

sorry for the Q on your thread

thanks

Don't mess with the 2 bridge posts, they are only used in the initial setup of the guitar (at the factory), or if you completely disassemble the guitar for refinishing. When changing gauges on the JP you simply adjust the spring claw for string tension, and the individual saddles for intonation. The design of the JP trem means it will always float provided the spring tension is properly adjusted.

 

[PaoloGilberto]

Pete , thanks for reply, I was not thinking about changing gauges, I was thinking about those degrees of floating ....if I understood the first posts well.

those 2 studs are not involved in that?




Don't mess with the 2 bridge posts, they are only used in the initial setup of the guitar (at the factory), or if you completely disassemble the guitar for refinishing. When changing gauges on the JP you simply adjust the spring claw for string tension, and the individual saddles for intonation. The design of the JP trem means it will always float provided the spring tension is properly adjusted.[/QUOTE]

 

[bkrumme]

Pete , thanks for reply, I was not thinking about changing gauges, I was thinking about those degrees of floating ....if I understood the first posts well.

those 2 studs are not involved in that?

No. Like Pete said, those are just for initial setup at the factory. For the JP, you probably want to keep the tremolo as close to parallel with the body as you can. Since it's recessed, there's no need to have an angle on it like you would with a Vintage Trem guitar.

 

[PeteDuBaldo]

Paolo, while you can adjust the spring claw to slightly control the amount of float, it works best set up the way the factory does it. Close to flush with the top of the guitar, parallel front to back and parallel side to side. If you change the angle of the tremolo to reduce or increase "float" you will most likely have to adjust the height of your saddles along with intonation, and your tuning stability may suffer from the new bridge angle.

If you want to reduce float in the tremolo, it is probably easier to insert a "bump stop" in the tremolo cavity and affix it with some non-permanent method. This way you take advantage of the proper bridge setup and don't have to monkey around with anything and wind up having a good tech set the guitar up for you.

 

[PaoloGilberto]

thx for reply guys
after I bought the guitar I wasn't satisfied with the action so I "played" a little with the adjustments:
truss rod, saddles, and those 2 metals studs from the bridge - lowering and raising them a little to see the changes.
after I finished "the job" I took it to a guitar player / good tech who said the the setup I got to is OK.
I read on the internet that adjusting those 2 metal studs (in general on FR systems) can affect tuning stability , but haven't noticed this after I've done the setup.
I noticed although that after getting the guitar out of the case after a night spent in there the notes a are bit sharp on each string, but I assumed that is because of the case pressing a little on the tremolo arm. am I right?

Paolo, while you can adjust the spring claw to slightly control the amount of float, it works best set up the way the factory does it. Close to flush with the top of the guitar, parallel front to back and parallel side to side. If you change the angle of the tremolo to reduce or increase "float" you will most likely have to adjust the height of your saddles along with intonation, and your tuning stability may suffer from the new bridge angle.

If you want to reduce float in the tremolo, it is probably easier to insert a "bump stop" in the tremolo cavity and affix it with some non-permanent method. This way you take advantage of the proper bridge setup and don't have to monkey around with anything and wind up having a good tech set the guitar up for you.

 

[cm_17]

I noticed although that after getting the guitar out of the case after a night spent in there the notes a are bit sharp on each string, but I assumed that is because of the case pressing a little on the tremolo arm. am I right?

If anything, they would be a little flat. I'd rather guess the neck is still adjusting (to slightly less relief).

 

[mistercharlie]

Don't mess with the 2 bridge posts, they are only used in the initial setup of the guitar (at the factory), or if you completely disassemble the guitar for refinishing. When changing gauges on the JP you simply adjust the spring claw for string tension, and the individual saddles for intonation. The design of the JP trem means it will always float provided the spring tension is properly adjusted.

Resurrecting this thread, as it seems appropriate.

I'm planning on floating my St Vincent trem, and in order to have the bridge parallel to the top of the body, I would usually back the bridge posts out a little. This is how it works on the Stratocaster Wilkinson 2-post trem. But you say not to touch those posts?

Just moving the trem claw out results in an angled bridge.

BTW I have no problems doing advanced setups.

 

[cm_17]

Resurrecting this thread, as it seems appropriate.

I'm planning on floating my St Vincent trem, and in order to have the bridge parallel to the top of the body, I would usually back the bridge posts out a little. This is how it works on the Stratocaster Wilkinson 2-post trem. But you say not to touch those posts?

Just moving the trem claw out results in an angled bridge.

BTW I have no problems doing advanced setups.

Since the St Vincent trem is not recessed, lifting the posts and the trem to have it float will significantly lift the string height, increasing your action over the neck. You'd likely have to shim the neck pocked to accommodate for this.

 

[DrKev]

Just moving the trem claw out results in an angled bridge.

BTW I have no problems doing advanced setups.

Yes, it does result in an angled bridge, but that's not a problem and works perfectly. This is how the Music Man Lukes are setup from the factory, also how Jeff Beck sets his strats, and how Fender currently recommend setting up their trems to float. Feel free to set it for as much or as little up-pull as you like, 3mm (1/8") gap gives approximately a minor third up-pull on the G string.

See here...

 

[mistercharlie]

Yes, it does result in an angled bridge, but that's not a problem and works perfectly. This is how the Music Man Lukes are setup from the factory, also how Jeff Beck sets his strats, and how Fender currently recommend setting up their trems to float. Feel free to set it for as much or as little up-pull as you like, 3mm (1/8") gap gives approximately a minor third up-pull on the G string.

Excellent. That also seems a lot easier, and with less saddle adjustment.

Since the St Vincent trem is not recessed, lifting the posts and the trem to have it float will significantly lift the string height, increasing your action over the neck. You'd likely have to shim the neck pocked to accommodate for this.

I could also reduce the height of the saddles using the adjustment screws. There should be enough adjustment there. But I'm happy to do it there factory-recommended way.

 

[tbonesullivan]

The original Fender Synchronized Tremolo was designed to float in the same manner. it's pretty much the only way to float a bridge when the bridge posts are not really adjustable.

You may still need to re-shim the neck, as the string height will go up a bit, though it depends on how that particular neck joint is already.

 

[DrKev]

There should be easily enough saddle adjustment that shimming is not necessary.

 

[mistercharlie]

Done. I loosened the claw and reset the saddle heights. Super easy, and the intonation was only out on one string!

 

[BrickGlass]

Good deal. Yeah, shimming the neck is not necessary for that setup, unless something is whack with the saddles. Should always have plenty of room to adjust the saddles and make the action low enough to compensate for the forward tilt of the bridge.