Big Poppa
Well-known member
Steveb stick to what you know.....
- Thread starter Big Poppa
- Start date
SteveB
Well-known member
I certainly intend to stick to what I know, BP! 
But I'm not 100% convinced that every "OLP Music Man Axis" for sale on eBay is posted by a scam artist. I think there's genuine confusion out there. I may very well be wrong, yet recently when I was talking to a (store unnamed) rep about my MUSIC MAN Petrucci guitar, he told me they had 'em and pointed to an OLP. I corrected him that time...
But I've thrown in my $.02 on this subject, so I'll shut up about it now. Hey, you DID say we could pester Gary about it..
But I'm not 100% convinced that every "OLP Music Man Axis" for sale on eBay is posted by a scam artist. I think there's genuine confusion out there. I may very well be wrong, yet recently when I was talking to a (store unnamed) rep about my MUSIC MAN Petrucci guitar, he told me they had 'em and pointed to an OLP. I corrected him that time...
But I've thrown in my $.02 on this subject, so I'll shut up about it now. Hey, you DID say we could pester Gary about it..
Big Poppa
Well-known member
Steveb
I posted asnauseum on this topic.
Heres the playing field
We have a factory and infastructure to sell about 300-400 instruments a week.
THere are more than one price points in the business
As costs go up you must find additional sources of revenue that you can leverage
Our price point is getting harder and harder due to the downward pricing of foriegn manufacture
By us ignoring the SUB and Olp price points we are providing an opportunity for somebody else to reap the benefits of the cache that we have created.
For us to address the CHinese made instruments it reuires a signifigant change of personnel and focus.
People like Jay turser are making the dough while we dit holds our p$ds.
THe concept for OLP is to be a brand providing the same opportunity for other manufacturers, we are just the only ones to sign up but it is the long term business plan to establish the brand as the product lines that has the blessings and control of the original brand.
I posted asnauseum on this topic.
Heres the playing field
We have a factory and infastructure to sell about 300-400 instruments a week.
THere are more than one price points in the business
As costs go up you must find additional sources of revenue that you can leverage
Our price point is getting harder and harder due to the downward pricing of foriegn manufacture
By us ignoring the SUB and Olp price points we are providing an opportunity for somebody else to reap the benefits of the cache that we have created.
For us to address the CHinese made instruments it reuires a signifigant change of personnel and focus.
People like Jay turser are making the dough while we dit holds our p$ds.
THe concept for OLP is to be a brand providing the same opportunity for other manufacturers, we are just the only ones to sign up but it is the long term business plan to establish the brand as the product lines that has the blessings and control of the original brand.
Mahlon
Well-known member
Along the Kustom discussion. In 1975, when I was 15, I bought a black Kustom 150 guitar amp. I think I paid $550 for it new. Now I'm 45, it is at my house and works like new today. My 16 year old son uses it.
I can't complain!
I can't complain!
Mobay45
Well-known member
Mahlon said:
It sounds like you're still getting your money's worth out of that one!
Mahlon
Well-known member
No foolin'! I remember they said it had a lifetime guarantee. They weren't kidding!
Big Poppa
Well-known member
Jeez little stevie b I pour my heart out and silence?
SteveB
Well-known member
Big Poppa said:
Well, my reply must be destined for the trash bin.. I just typed a lengthy op-ed piece and tried to post it, but it was eaten by little green men residing in your web server!
Plus, I had typed a long-winded response to this earlier today, but then decided not to post it since I had said I would shut up on the subject. But since you are taunting me...
I think the OLP concept is brilliant. Guitar makers deserve to collect some $$ when their R&D ends up in a clone guitar. This is basic intellectual property rights stuff, and if it provides a revenue stream for you without your having to create a $200 guitar at a profit, all the better! I also think that the other guitar makers are crazy because they haven't gotten on board. It's a brilliant business model that allows those 'other' manufacturers to participate as well.
My real bone of contention lies with the name: Officially Licensed Products. This is far too straightforward for some American guitar buyers!
The name clearly articulates what the buyer is getting, but some still take their "Officially Licensed Product" of Music Man and think it's the real McCoy. (Because it IS official, right? It's an Official Music Man design! An "official Music Man")As for price points, you definitely have a win-win with the OLP deal in the entry level market. But I repeatedly see SUB1 guitars being sold for peanuts at BigName guitar stores. If they were selling for $650 plus or minus $50, there would be clearly delineated price points. Yet I myself, on more than one occasion, just barely escaped a music store without purchasing the SUB1 guitars that were being offered circa $400. And that, methinks, is too close to OLP pricing.
Sorry to post rough street prices, but I haven't named stores or models, so hopefully that's okay. If not, some mod can feel free to edit. In fact, while they're at it, maybe they can strengthen my viewpoint..
See? I hope you weren't too despondent about pouring your heart out.
bovinehost
Administrator
Welcome to my world, Steve.
shamus63
Well-known member
Okay, I'll throw in a bit here, too. I personally don't know a thing about (or give a f*ck about) price points, business models...whatever.
The OLP name is a separate entity from Ernie Ball/MusicMan...plain and simple.
It says, right on the back of the headstock, "Licensed by Ernie Ball". On the front of the HS, it says "OLP - Officially Licensed Product"
From what I've seen, both in the stores and online, if they carry one brand, they (usually) carry the other (SUB products, as well). OLP and EBMM are offered in separate display areas, so as to show that they are in fact separate products.
If someone wants to think (or brag) that they got the real deal for a fraction of the realistic street cost, it only shows that they spent the money without really looking at the product. If someone wants to sell their OLP as an "Ernie Ball", it shows that they really don't know their product (or are BS'ing)...and it will show!
Buyer beware...excellent moto!
The OLP name is a separate entity from Ernie Ball/MusicMan...plain and simple.
It says, right on the back of the headstock, "Licensed by Ernie Ball". On the front of the HS, it says "OLP - Officially Licensed Product"
From what I've seen, both in the stores and online, if they carry one brand, they (usually) carry the other (SUB products, as well). OLP and EBMM are offered in separate display areas, so as to show that they are in fact separate products.
If someone wants to think (or brag) that they got the real deal for a fraction of the realistic street cost, it only shows that they spent the money without really looking at the product. If someone wants to sell their OLP as an "Ernie Ball", it shows that they really don't know their product (or are BS'ing)...and it will show!
Buyer beware...excellent moto!
SteveB
Well-known member
Hey Jack, yes now I know a little about your world. I must say, it ain't bad!
Shamus, I think you missed a few of my points, but that's okay. The presence of the words "Ernie Ball"in the phrase "Licensed by Ernie Ball" is part of what I'm talking about. That should be fine print somewhere. Maybe it doesn't even need to appear on the guitar, as long as the checks still come thru, eh BP?
Shamus, I think you missed a few of my points, but that's okay. The presence of the words "Ernie Ball"in the phrase "Licensed by Ernie Ball" is part of what I'm talking about. That should be fine print somewhere. Maybe it doesn't even need to appear on the guitar, as long as the checks still come thru, eh BP?
Big Poppa
Well-known member
Steve
THe problem is that it was such a radically simple idea other companies are reluctant to join the band wagon. We have also had a lot of internal diffficulties with the licensee that have been settled. It now has a home with real good direction from the Hanser family.
I can name who you are talking about. Guitar Center. They give managers "markdown" money that is already accounted for. The manager can decide to blow anything out at any price until he runs out of markdown dollars. The markdown dollars are intended to clear out shopworn and damaged pieces. The bass bass monkey bought was shipped to them in Feb 2005...they felt it should be marked down....
I had a really good conversation with a GC big wig yesterday. Here is the two edged sword
I hate going into Guitar Center and seeing six or seven beat to sh&t instruments with dings, gashes, missing switch tips and the manager says they dont sell. Purchasing views the inventory as new since no markdown dollars have been applied they consider the 6 instruments to be saleable so they dont reorder. We complain about the condition of the inventory and the manager uses markdown dollars and purchasing sees that 6 instruments are sold so now they can reorder.
The problem is sometimes the manager goes crazy with the markdown dollars and hurts us and our dealers. IF they keep up on the markdown dollars and dont wait until it is a crisis it works fine.
I forwarded the thread that was posted last week about taking advantage of Guitar Centers money back guarantee to the CEO. He really appreciated it and forwarded it to all executives. He would love to respond but he is really got his hands full running GC. I wont atempt to paraphrase him but would like to point out the the guitars get dinged because GC wants you to be able to play anything you want. They have the money back guarantee knowing that some will take advantage of it but feel that if it helps the majority then they are providing a great service insuring that the player really gets what they want. He appreciated the thread because it was an honest objective study of what people would like to see change as far as our stuff is concerned on the store level.
Its funny, my dentist buys everything from Circuit City and has a date on everything..cordless phone, dvd, tv. i asked why and he said I take everything back on the 364th day and exchange for new. Most of the time they no longer offer what he is
returning so he gets an upgrade. My neighbor has bought one Plasma TV from Costco and returns it each year and usually gets a better tv and a credit due to the falling plasma prices. I wouldn't do that to a retailer, but its legal...so
Sorry for the long winded post but......
THe problem is that it was such a radically simple idea other companies are reluctant to join the band wagon. We have also had a lot of internal diffficulties with the licensee that have been settled. It now has a home with real good direction from the Hanser family.
I can name who you are talking about. Guitar Center. They give managers "markdown" money that is already accounted for. The manager can decide to blow anything out at any price until he runs out of markdown dollars. The markdown dollars are intended to clear out shopworn and damaged pieces. The bass bass monkey bought was shipped to them in Feb 2005...they felt it should be marked down....
I had a really good conversation with a GC big wig yesterday. Here is the two edged sword
I hate going into Guitar Center and seeing six or seven beat to sh&t instruments with dings, gashes, missing switch tips and the manager says they dont sell. Purchasing views the inventory as new since no markdown dollars have been applied they consider the 6 instruments to be saleable so they dont reorder. We complain about the condition of the inventory and the manager uses markdown dollars and purchasing sees that 6 instruments are sold so now they can reorder.
The problem is sometimes the manager goes crazy with the markdown dollars and hurts us and our dealers. IF they keep up on the markdown dollars and dont wait until it is a crisis it works fine.
I forwarded the thread that was posted last week about taking advantage of Guitar Centers money back guarantee to the CEO. He really appreciated it and forwarded it to all executives. He would love to respond but he is really got his hands full running GC. I wont atempt to paraphrase him but would like to point out the the guitars get dinged because GC wants you to be able to play anything you want. They have the money back guarantee knowing that some will take advantage of it but feel that if it helps the majority then they are providing a great service insuring that the player really gets what they want. He appreciated the thread because it was an honest objective study of what people would like to see change as far as our stuff is concerned on the store level.
Its funny, my dentist buys everything from Circuit City and has a date on everything..cordless phone, dvd, tv. i asked why and he said I take everything back on the 364th day and exchange for new. Most of the time they no longer offer what he is
returning so he gets an upgrade. My neighbor has bought one Plasma TV from Costco and returns it each year and usually gets a better tv and a credit due to the falling plasma prices. I wouldn't do that to a retailer, but its legal...so
Sorry for the long winded post but......
shamus63
Well-known member
Actually, I hit the point right-on-the-button. Your major issue with the OLP line is the name.
Now, if the front of the headstock were to say "Ernie Ball - OLP" or "OLP - Stingray", that could be mistakingly read the same as "Ernie Ball - S.U.B." or even "Ernie Ball - Stingray". But that was covered by calling it "OLP - Officially Licensed Product", with no mention of Ernie Ball/MusicMan or its product line (Stingray/Axis) on the front (where it counts the most).
Absolutely no harm (or misintent) could be read into placing the EB name on the back, *given the context it was written*, or calling the line "Officially Licensed Product".
As far as the close price range between OLP and SUB, I'm not seeing that (online, at least). Still nearly a $400 gap between the two products.
Now, if the front of the headstock were to say "Ernie Ball - OLP" or "OLP - Stingray", that could be mistakingly read the same as "Ernie Ball - S.U.B." or even "Ernie Ball - Stingray". But that was covered by calling it "OLP - Officially Licensed Product", with no mention of Ernie Ball/MusicMan or its product line (Stingray/Axis) on the front (where it counts the most).
Absolutely no harm (or misintent) could be read into placing the EB name on the back, *given the context it was written*, or calling the line "Officially Licensed Product".
As far as the close price range between OLP and SUB, I'm not seeing that (online, at least). Still nearly a $400 gap between the two products.
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SteveB
Well-known member
BP,
That was a great post, even with the breeze. It held my kite aloft for a full minute!
That was a great post, even with the breeze. It held my kite aloft for a full minute!
Big Poppa
Well-known member
The price point usually moves together....mainting the gap between the olp and sub...and the average annual street price is sound...usually 350 to 400 between the two.
shamus63
Well-known member
Nothing at all against the OLP and SUB products, but I'll hold out for the cream-of-the-crop!
End of November...an eternity away!
End of November...an eternity away!
