hiss help - Bongo

[shakinbacon]

My soundman today said the DI signal sounded like "an ocean" (his term for hiss).

When I muted the DI (Genz Benz Shuttle PRE EQ DI) or turned the Bongo volume down it went away. Thus I don't think it is the DI. I've tried a passive DI with the same results.

I don't have anything in my signal chain. I have new batteries and the cord is in great shape.

I eq the Bongo as follows
Hi Mid and Magnetic pan at center detent
Bass, Treble and Lo Mids 20% boost from center detent.
75% mag, 25% piezo signal

The PA sound system is excellent (Yamaha 32 channel digital with JBL active Sub and mains). However to be fair, I don't know how the soundman eq'd the Bongo.

The hiss definitely goes down with the treble knob btw.
Has anyone else noticed this or have suggestions?

Thanks,
bummed

P.S. I posted another thread about active vs passive hiss as I'm trying to determine if maybe I should go passive

 

[maddog]

hiss is part of the beast known as electronics.

every solder joint adds white noise to the chain.

Not as prevalent on passive as active because it is all down hill for passive. There is no gain and the capacitance and inductance of the circuit will alter the frequency response in a negative manner (i.e. it subtracts from the signal)

With an active preamp you are boosting the signal. Any noise will get amplified as well.

Turn down the tweets, turn down the treble knob or eq it out at the board. Easy enough to do. Otherwise, go passive.

P.S. I posted another thread about active vs passive hiss as I'm trying to determine if maybe I should go active

BTW, did you mean passive at the end of your sentence there?

 

[shakinbacon]

hiss is part of the beast known as electronics.

every solder joint adds white noise to the chain.

Not as prevalent on passive as active because it is all down hill for passive. There is no gain and the capacitance and inductance of the circuit will alter the frequency response in a negative manner (i.e. it subtracts from the signal)

With an active preamp you are boosting the signal. Any noise will get amplified as well.

Turn down the tweets, turn down the treble knob or eq it out at the board. Easy enough to do. Otherwise, go passive.



BTW, did you mean passive at the end of your sentence there?

Thanks for the explanation maddogg, and yes I meant passive - I'll fix that.

You're right that the soundman can eq it out... as can I. I'll see if I can tweak the eq a bit on my end first though.

 

[Grand Wazoo]

Q

Dear Bacon, read this please:

As you know I have the exact same bass as yours, a few months ago, I sent my amp (Mark Bass CMD102P) back to the distributors to have a head swap because I was upgrading from an LM II to a Little Mark Tube head... the store lent me a Genz Benz shuttle just like yours, I wrote a review here http://www.ernieball.com/forums/mus...eates-big-attraction-london-2.html#post706135, but the first thing I've noticed was the dreadful noise that came out of it with the Bongo HHp that could only be tamed once the EQ was kept to lowest level and the preshape switch turned off, that I was able to keep it at bay, luckily I didn't have to put up with that amp for long and as soon as my Mark Bass returned I was happy again, no matter how high the EQ is set, even with am piezo tweeter horn there is no hiss from the Bongo so don't blame it on the bass: it's that Genz Schmuckenz amp.

Oh and it did the same with the 25th, and that doesn't have a piezo pickup. I hate to admit that I am not a fan of those Genz Benz even if Ed Friedland swears by them.

 

[shakinbacon]

Dear Bacon, read this please:

As you know I have the exact same bass as yours, a few months ago, I sent my amp (Mark Bass CMD102P) back to the distributors to have a head swap because I was upgrading from an LM II to a Little Mark Tube head... the store lent me a Genz Benz shuttle just like yours, I wrote a review here http://www.ernieball.com/forums/mus...eates-big-attraction-london-2.html#post706135, but the first thing I've noticed was the dreadful noise that came out of it with the Bongo HHp that could only be tamed once the EQ was kept to lowest level and the preshape switch turned off, that I was able to keep it at bay, luckily I didn't have to put up with that amp for long and as soon as my Mark Bass returned I was happy again, no matter how high the EQ is set, even with am piezo tweeter horn there is no hiss from the Bongo so don't blame it on the bass: it's that Genz Schmuckenz amp.

Oh and it did the same with the 25th, and that doesn't have a piezo pickup. I hate to admit that I am not a fan of those Genz Benz even if Ed Friedland swears by them.

Thanks for the reply Grand Wazoo. I don't think it is the amp to be honest (I'm a fan of them as you can tell) but I'll go direct with a passive DI next time to eliminate it from the equation. (I set the amp flat with a slight cut in the treble but no shape buttons engaged. But even so, I bypass the eq on the DI)

Also, I can hear the hiss through a mixer with headphones when the Bongo is plugged directly into it and the volume is up - it goes away when the volume is zero. With a passive bass, there is no difference between the volume at min or full on on this mixer.

 

[mynan]

Could be from the gain being turned up too high on the board. The Shuttle DI has a line level/mic level switch. If it's set at "mic level", try switching it to "line level". It should send a stronger signal to the board, allowing the sound guy to turn the input gain down on the your channel...could reduce the hiss.

 

[shakinbacon]

Could be from the gain being turned up too high on the board. The Shuttle DI has a line level/mic level switch. If it's set at "mic level", try switching it to "line level". It should send a stronger signal to the board, allowing the sound guy to turn the input gain down on the your channel...could reduce the hiss.

Good suggestion, but I was actually using Line Level. I was actually thinking of using mic level to see if it might help

 

[laneline]

do you do get any hiss with the Piezo completely off ? I don't get any hiss on my 25th's ether, sans Piezo of course, but similar EQ. Pleas post the fix when you find it, good luck.

 

[adouglas]

Put in fresh batteries and check it again.

 

[shakinbacon]

do you do get any hiss with the Piezo completely off ? I don't get any hiss on my 25th's ether, sans Piezo of course, but similar EQ. Pleas post the fix when you find it, good luck.

yes I do get hiss with piezo off.

However, the piezo adds treble so I may try adding *more* piezo signal, boosting the bass and low mids and rolling off the treble to reduce the hiss and boost the signal at the same time.

adouglas - I did use fresh batteries

I realize this is a potentially unpopular topic and appreciate everyone's suggestions.

 

[adouglas]

Fresh batteries don't necessarily mean good batteries. Check them.

Beyond that... engage in Troubleshooting 101:

- Simplify the signal chain to isolate the source of the hiss. Plug the bass directly into the board. If the hiss is still there, try a different cord. If the hiss is still there, it's the bass. If the hiss disappears, it's something else in the chain.

- Try a different (active) bass.

- Plug the bass into the head and the head into the board. If the hiss disappears, it's the DI. If it's still there, try different cords.

- Plug the bass into the DI and the DI into the board, eliminating the amp. If the hiss disappears, it's the amp. If it's still there, try different cords.

- Take the snake out of the picture and run a known-good XLR cord from the DI to the board.

The wisest man I ever knew taught me to never overlook the obvious. It's tempting to blame the most expensive and complicated piece of gear you've got. The real problem might be something much more pedestrian.

 

[MadMatt]

I have the Shuttle 3.0 and used to use it every weak as a DI box with my 25th without any hiss. It goes to an "el cheapo" Phonic 24 channel mixer. I use mic level and post EQ with no shaping, EQ flat. This allowed me to adjust the GB preamp and mixer preamp to levels that eliminated noticeable hissing. IIRC the Shuttle was putting out a pretty high signal (2:00 - 3:00) and the board pre-amp was at 9:00 (this will of course vary depending on your board).

It might seam counterintuitive but give it a try. It worked for me

-Matt

 

[keko]

Can somebody explain me with very simple words what this term "Hiss" means?

I think I'm guessing what could it be, but I'm not sure, 'cause don't understand English so good!

So, I would like to give my contribution to this Thread but must have exact informations, if you know what I mean?

Thanks in advance!

 

[mynan]

Can somebody explain me with very simple words what this term "Hiss" means?

I think I'm guessing what could it be, but I'm not sure, 'cause don't understand English so good!

So, I would like to give my contribution to this Thread but must have exact informations, if you know what I mean?

Thanks in advance!

ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss...like the sound a snake makes.

 

[Grand Wazoo]

ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss...like the sound a snake makes.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lRzRXHr88Q"]YouTube- Hissing Noise[/ame]

 

[MadMatt]

ROTFLMAO!!! That was good!

 

[JayDawg]

That was awesome!

 

[keko]

OK, this video explains everything!

Well, I thought so at the first place, so You have "hiss" noise in higher level of "pink noise" let's say between 7.5 kHz and 20 kHz, right?

When cut the treble on the 4 band EQ, hiss level goes down, right?

With or without piezo, the same thing, right?

Direct to the sound man's mix-console, the same thing?

Fresh batteries, the same thing, right?

If all the answers are yes, I'm afraid You have serious problems with Your Bongo's preamp!

How old is this Bongo and how many working hours it have approximately?

You see, in audio electronic circuits there are plenty of R-C elements (resistors and capacitors), for a years of use electrolytic capacitors could dry out and the result is this "hiss" noise in higher frequency register!

But that's just one of possibilities!

Maybe just try to contact EB Customer Service, or some electro-acoustic service center in Your neighborhood!

 

[bovinehost]

But that's just one of possibilities!

And the least likely.

 

[bovinehost]

Here we are again, making WAGs (wild-ass-scientific guesses) about an entire electronics system that none of us have seen or heard. There is no possible way this can be in any way helpful or accurate.

Q: "I fell down and now my butt hurts."
A: "It is broken."
A2: "Or it is bruised."
A3: "It is probably broken AND bruised and will have to be replaced."
A4: "Call your parents, they gave you your DNA."
A5: "Your butt is not the problem, it's the hard surface you struck."

etc etc etc etc

Enough.