How important is "the right" sound in a band context?

[bassmonkey]

I've been thinking about this for some time now. We, as bass players, don't get to hear our sound within the live band context, unless someone records it.

I read a lot of posts where people say, I prefer this sort of string, or this bass with these settings, or this setting on my amp etc. The big question is, how do we actually know this is the right combination, we don't hear it properly. It could be an absolutely rubbish sound.

The other important point is, the average punter listening to a band is not going to necessarily hone in on the bass playing. They will be vaguely aware of it, but whether the guy is playing a P-bass with flats on or an Alembic with ultra light gauge strings on that Motown cover will go right over his head.

I recently got a video clip of me playing a funk track in a band. I was really surprised, as the tone was different to how I heard it on stage. Mind, SR-GK combination, so it sounded fantastic!

 

[russinator]

Yeah I often wonder about that too. I've heard recordings where I sounded better than I thought when I was playing. But then again there are a few viewpoints.
1) How I hear myself
2) How the other bandmates hear me
3) How the recorder thru the mics hear it and
4) How the audience hears it.

 

[Samingo]

I think every bassist, or hell, even musician deals with this in one way or another. Though, heaving dealt with a fair share of mixers and producers and trying to be one myself, I think the right tone can make all the difference.

'Even if people don't know why they like it, they'll know they like it', is my experience.

There's been times where I'm so fed up with the search for 'my tone' that I just want to go grab a P-bass, set the tone knob to the bass side and use the most basic normal sound I can get. Then I go out and I listen to a lot of the bass players that have influenced me, and even my own recorded stuff, and I see how much more appropriate each tone is for each song.

It's about feel after all.

Anyhow, that's my two cents.

 

[oldbluebassman]

I don't play for a tribute band but I play for a band that does covers. We don't try and copy the original recording, we always have our own take on it. I have my sound and that is what I bring to the band.

If for any reason I can't get my sound because I'm not using my amp, then I find it very unsettling.

Occasionally I record a gig on my portable MD recorder just to make sure that it sounds OK. I also ask the other band members and friends in the audience if it sounds right. To date, no-one has said it's cr*p. Maybe they are just being polite.

 

[Lazybite]

I personally think getting the right sound is absolutely critical.... it can be the difference between being a good a band and a pro band....
The problem is that the tone you get by yourself may not be the tone you need in the band situation.. Its something you need to work in with other instruments.. finding eq ranges so you all sit comfortabley (sp?) in the mix... strings and amps are all apart of this

Anyway what I have found works is get a friend or two with good knowledge of music and ask them to give you an idea of your tone each time they see you play. You need to let them know that they should blow smoke up you and that you aren't going to get offended if they say it was rubbish - make sure they are the kind of person who can criticise helpfully though.. not someone who is just going to say you sucked or you rocked... you need to know why..

 

[bassmonkey]

I personally think getting the right sound is absolutely critical.... it can be the difference between being a good a band and a pro band....
The problem is that the tone you get by yourself may not be the tone you need in the band situation.. Its something you need to work in with other instruments.. finding eq ranges so you all sit comfortabley (sp?) in the mix... strings and amps are all apart of this

Anyway what I have found works is get a friend or two with good knowledge of music and ask them to give you an idea of your tone each time they see you play. You need to let them know that they should blow smoke up you and that you aren't going to get offended if they say it was rubbish - make sure they are the kind of person who can criticise helpfully though.. not someone who is just going to say you sucked or you rocked... you need to know why..

But you still don't know how you sound really. You are just relying on some bozos you know. How do you really know you sound good?

 

[Lazybite]

I have a few very competent friends so i tend to ask them and not my bozo mates.. lol

If you want to know how you sound on stage you need to get a good qualitty soundboard recording... have it tracked seperately so you can solo each instrument and study the nuances and start working out what tone fits in best with the band but also makes you shine and generally sounds awesome

a good sound/tone will cut through the mix and sound espesh if it is eq'd correctly.... it should be quite audible from most recordings set flat...

Another method is to play through some studio monitors at home.. .that is the best way to replicate a PA.... this is assuming that when you gig you DI from bass head into PA and use speaker cabinet as onstage sound

Its one of the toughest things about being a muso is getting tone right (I am way off and still experimenting.... but am closer from when I first started playing in bands)

 

[EasyTiger]

But you still don't know how you sound really. You are just relying on some bozos you know. How do you really know you sound good?

I ain't no bozo mister, drunken yes, but no bozo

Lazy, It's on for sat, the girly's gona drive me home

 

[EasyTiger]

Its one of the toughest things about being a muso is getting tone right (I am way off and still experimenting.... but am closer from when I first started playing in bands)

Just wait till you get your new Ray, you'll be fine

 

[Lazybite]

hell yeah!!! love that double pup!! that mesa wouldn't bad either and maybe some a couple of eden boxes..... Later but

 

[TheAntMan]

This is a very cool topic

Years ago, I was playing in a band and we thought we sounded pretty good. All our friends said that they liked our sound. We then got a "Sound guy". He came to one of our rehearsals to get a feel for the music. He did not say much, just listened. When we asked him what he thought, he said, "Yeah, I like the music and I can help". That was it!!!

After he left, we were kind of not sure about him since he didn't really say much else. Anyway, we had him do our sound at the next gig. WOW, every one of our friends came up to tell us how great we sounded and what a difference they noticed in the improvement of our playing

That just blew us away. We never realized that our individual sounds were being lost at key points in the songs. This guy was able to fade in and out instruments at the right times and balance our sound from song to song. He also tastefully added some effects to the vocals on some songs that gave the songs a lift.

I guess my point is that you sometimes need an experienced person to help find what is missing in your sound. These are hard to find. We lucked out when we found this guy.

Wish I knew where he was now

Ant

 

[Aussie Mark]

We don't try and copy the original recording, we always have our own take on it. I have my sound and that is what I bring to the band.

+1

 

[Aussie Mark]

We then got a "Sound guy". He came to one of our rehearsals to get a feel for the music. He did not say much, just listened. When we asked him what he thought, he said, "Yeah, I like the music and I can help".

That's the key to getting a good live sound. A soundguy who likes your music. If they're not into it, they won't make much of an effort.

 

[oddjob]

Wireless!!!! I am usually out in front for the sound check (since we run sound from the stage)and the first song or two. Friends are nice (and sometimes reliable) but most of the time (stressing the word MOST) they have no idea how to vocalize what they are hearing realitive to what you need. They might hear that something is amiss but not be able to describe it... by going out, I can do the leg work myself and THEN ask the others for 2nd opinions.

But getting it right is essential and does make a huge difference (as stated earlier, it is the difference between being good and being a pro... or being crappy and being good for that matter).

 

[Lazybite]

That's the key to getting a good live sound. A soundguy who likes your music. If they're not into it, they won't make much of an effort.

my band is in particular need of one of these creatures... we have a singer that has a what most people consider an absolutely sensational voice but has average technique so the volume of his voice fluctuates massively... we need a sound guy that knows the songs and is happy to stand at the desk the whole time just riding the faders and so on... we are getting close with a few people...so hopefully!!!

 

[maddog]

I've had a few conversations with a friend of mine on this subject. I think I've left him speechless at times.

I don't get the whole mix thing. I'm used to the classical side where you work the mix in rehearsal. You're always listening to each other and working the interplay (volume, dynamics, phrasing, etc.) so the concert goes off well. I'm not used to the amplified side of things where it seems you are at the mercy of a slider on a board run by somebody who usually thinks that being a sound guy requires louder = better. What I've seen from various clubs I've been to and friends in bands, is that volumes are usually way too high, PA isn't really needed and too many musicians think they are some trumpet player workin' a solo at halftime of some high school football game throughout the entire set. The volume knob on your guitar (bass and the higher-pitched sort) is there for a reason.

But like I said, I'm naive about these things.

 

[Aussie Mark]

My pet soundguy gripe is guys who think that vocals should be down in the mix, at the same volume as everything else. When I mix a band, I ensure that the vocals are distinct, and the loudest instrument, especially during verses. I also tend to have the bass sitting fairly high in the mix

 

[AnthonyD]

Similar to 'odbluebassman' and 'Aussie Mark', my band plays covers but is not a 'Cover Band' - we don't necessarily re-interpret songs, but we do bring our style and feel to the music. In the bass department, my tone is mine alone - not one that has to duplicate another.

Having said that, I am rather casual about "my sound" - I'm never far from flat on my bass or my amp, though I have a tendency to go 'smiley face' on occasion with my EQ. I don't fuss much so long as it is full and clean with a bit of punch and bite to it.

My bass has to cut through and is always dominant in the mix. I can always hear my bass in the mx. I demand it and my three guitarists don't seem to mind so everybody is happy.

In terms of 'Live Sound', we generally play outdoor community events a few times a year (three this summer, a new record!). Small stuff for a few hundred people. We don't have a sound man and rely heavily on wandering into the audience-space to ensure a good mix.

I trust one of my guitarists who does the 'wireless walk' to keep the band honest. Even so, I plan to go wireless myself before our first gig (end of June) to keep him honest!

 

[AnthonyD]

My pet soundguy gripe is guys who think that vocals should be down in the mix, at the same volume as everything else. When I mix a band, I ensure that the vocals are distinct, and the loudest instrument, especially during verses. I also tend to have the bass sitting fairly high in the mix

Completely agree... Big +1

 

[Lazybite]

I hate it when a soundguy walks away from desk...... gets the levels right and then thinks that that is it... its ok if the he/she is getting a beer and/or using toliet facilities..