How to integrate my Piezo into my Rig?

[Jerry Jim]

Hey Folks,


there's already a thread on this website:
How to integrate my EBMM Piezo into my Rig? - John Petrucci Forums

Please help me out!



Thanks a lot,

Jerry

 

[e.mate]

Hi Jerry,

all questions seem to be answered on the Petrucci Forum already....so what else do you need help on?

I also own a Silhouette with piezo, and run the signals seperately into two different rack units.....that's all MIDI-switchable, which is fine for me

 

[Jerry Jim]

Well,


I think I need something like a switchable Splitter box, to switch between magnetic and piezo?!
A Volume Pedal would actually >>add<< the piezo signal, right?


Thanks!

 

[Willith]

I believe I share the same frustration as you. I've never understood this.

I figured you would need some type of Y cable, then you could just switch back and forth between piezo and magnetic. I don't buy the b.s. about having to run the piezo directly into a PA. I, like you, can get great tone through my amp when running directly through the piezo.

If somebody could actually show a picture of what they're trying to explain, that'd help a lot more probably.

 

[e.mate]

If you wish to run both signals to the same amp then YES, you need a switchable splitter box (or better, a switchabel mini mixer/merger). But there's a couple of good floor boxes that do the trick.

Currently, I actually use a floor tuner (ARTEC BigDot) to mute the piezo signal when not used, until all rack units are fully MIDI synchronized. But that's a different setup, as I use two seperate amps for the seperate signals.

 

[e.mate]

If somebody could actually show a picture of what they're trying to explain, that'd help a lot more probably.

Okay, maybe you guys check out some of these.

Switch Pedals - U.K. International Cyberstore

I know that some of our brothers in arms use the BOSS AB2, for example, as it can handle two signals to one amp, or one signal to two amps....just at the flick of a switch.

 

[SteveB]

I don't buy the b.s. about having to run the piezo directly into a PA. I, like you, can get great tone through my amp when running directly through the piezo.

I thought the same thing until I actually tried it direct to the PA. The piezo output is full-range and most guitar amps will not reproduce the entire frequency spectrum that it outputs as well as a PA system or an acoustic amp. They're just not voiced to do it.

 

[e.mate]

I thought the same thing until I actually tried it direct to the PA. The piezo output is full-range and most guitar amps will not reproduce the entire frequency spectrum that it outputs as well as a PA system or an acoustic amp. They're just not voiced to do it.

agreed....most guitar amps don't do the trick. But some of the digital pres can handle it surprisingly beautiful (like my Chameleon does ;-)) . I also heard a guy in a local shop use an acoustic preset from an BOSS GT-Pro with a little tweaking that sounded wonderful

What I don't like about the direct-to-PA thing is the fact, that your depending soundwise on the guy at the console. I once ran an Yamaha APX from DI into PA....and the f**ker on the controls spoiled it. So now I get to them with a pre-defined character

 

[SteveB]

What I don't like about the direct-to-PA thing is the fact, that your depending soundwise on the guy at the console. I once ran an Yamaha APX from DI into PA....and the f**ker on the controls spoiled it. So now I get to them with a pre-defined character

This is true. I always have the soundman put the piezo through the floor monitors so I can hear it a bit. I don't really use the piezo by itself in any of my band's material, I use it blended with my magnetic pickups and clean sound from my rig. All I ask of the soundman is to apply a bit of reverb and keep the EQ pretty much flat.. it's hard to screw up that piezo signal!

When rehearsing with the band I pipe the piezo into our practice PA too, with the same technique (flat, with some reverb added at the board).

 

[e.mate]

Aaah, okay, got it....I use the piezo signal by itself as an acoustic six string emulation, so it's an isolated signal. And I have my own independent monitoring for that sound, so I don't have it sitting in the monitor mix where I already have Vocals, Keyboards and a little Drums and Bass (depending on the size of the stage). Just a different set up...

 

[SteveB]

Tone, as always, is subjective. The bottom line is to let your ears be the judge. You can't argue with what is working for somebody, eh?

Piezo is such a great option to have in an electric guitar! It really expands the tonal possibilities, especially in a live setting. But I've also recorded my guitar (clean) with the piezo on another channel simultaneously and experimented with the mix of those signals with cool textural results.

 

[e.mate]

Tone, as always, is subjective. The bottom line is to let your ears be the judge. You can't argue with what is working for somebody, eh? .

Of course, perfectly true...not gonna argue about it, never. Let everbody be happy, the way they want to, with the sound and setup of their very own choice

Piezo is such a great option to have in an electric guitar! It really expands the tonal possibilities, especially in a live setting. But I've also recorded my guitar (clean) with the piezo on another channel simultaneously and experimented with the mix of those signals with cool textural results.

YYYYYEEEEESSSSSSSSSS

 

[colinboy]

This is true. I always have the soundman put the piezo through the floor monitors so I can hear it a bit. I don't really use the piezo by itself in any of my band's material, I use it blended with my magnetic pickups and clean sound from my rig. All I ask of the soundman is to apply a bit of reverb and keep the EQ pretty much flat.. it's hard to screw up that piezo signal!

When rehearsing with the band I pipe the piezo into our practice PA too, with the same technique (flat, with some reverb added at the board).

Do you mean the EQ turned down completley for the piezo when you mean flat steve?ive been plugging mine directly into the PA desk for rehearsal with my band recently but i must get a DI box for it next.

Sorry for the hijack!

 

[SteveB]

Do you mean the EQ turned down completley for the piezo when you mean flat steve?ive been plugging mine directly into the PA desk for rehearsal with my band recently but i must get a DI box for it next.

Sorry for the hijack!

I mean with the EQ set flat.. if we're talking cut/boost knobs on a mixing console they would be in the center position. Basically just allowing the signal to flow through without altering the frequencies. I'm sure the console EQ could be tweaked out to make the piezo sound better, but a good soundman could handle that 'on the fly'. Remember the piezo has treble and bass EQ pots on the back of the guitar anyway.. adjust them to your liking and let the console EQ run flat.

 

[e.mate]

Yeah, that's definitely not what we're talking about. He posted this on the JP forums-"But then I can't switch between piezo and lead for instance... I guess I need something to switch directly between piezo and magnetic. For Instance, the EBMM Splitter with an integrated switch. Y'know I'm sayin?".

A splitter works fine if you want to use two amps or two separate guitars into an amp. I believe we are both trying to use ONE guitar on ONE amp.
When I talked to someone about this before, they mentioned some type of Y cable which would go into both jacks on the guitar so you can freely switch back and forth between the piezo and magnetic. I never see Petrucci or anyone else do this...so wtf? Very confusing.

I still think, that I fully understood what you guys are up to....but we are talking two different things here...
- I think JP uses a stereo cable, and the stereo jack of that cable goes into the EB Splitter Box, where the channels get seperated to two different outputs. Both signals are continously there, only the seperate volumes are controlled by pre-programmed "patches" from the floor board.
- If you use the Y-cable, you get a stereo jack on one side and two seperate Mono-jacks on the other. With this, you may connect to both inputs of e.g. the Boss AB2, which enables you to select between both signals...and that's what you guys are up to, right?
Of course, you may as well use two different standard guitar cables, as the Silo offers two outputs.

So, did I get that right?

 

[Willith]

I still think, that I fully understood what you guys are up to....but we are talking two different things here...
- I think JP uses a stereo cable, and the stereo jack of that cable goes into the EB Splitter Box, where the channels get seperated to two different outputs. Both signals are continously there, only the seperate volumes are controlled by pre-programmed "patches" from the floor board.
- If you use the Y-cable, you get a stereo jack on one side and two seperate Mono-jacks on the other. With this, you may connected to both inputs of e.g. the Boss AB2, which enables you to select between both signals...and that's what you guys are up to, right?
Of course, you may as well use two different standard guitar cables, as the Silo offers two outputs.

So, did I get that right?

I think we are getting closer...

This is the same GCX splitter JP uses: http://www.voodoolab.com/gcxdiagrams/12-Magnetic_&_Piezo_Guitar_Rig.pdf

When I look at that diagram it clearly shows two outs from the guitar- 1mag, 1 piezo.


I think what you are saying, is that there is ONE cable used, plugged into the piezo, that is sent through the splitter, where it separates the mag from the piezo- and from the splitter/floorboard you select which option you'd like to use. Is that right?
And if that is the case, how does the splitter knowingly separate the two signals?

 

[e.mate]

I think we are getting closer...

This is the same GCX splitter JP uses: http://www.voodoolab.com/gcxdiagrams/12-Magnetic_&_Piezo_Guitar_Rig.pdf

When I look at that diagram it clearly shows two outs from the guitar- 1mag, 1 piezo.


I think what you are saying, is that there is ONE cable used, plugged into the piezo, that is sent through the splitter, where it separates the mag from the piezo- and from the splitter/floorboard you select which option you'd like to use. Is that right?

Yes, exactly what I'm saying The Voodoolab stuff is even more sophisticated....and more expensive at the same time....

And if that is the case, how does the splitter knowingly separate the two signals?

Errrhhhh ....you tell it to do so, by switching it into two-to-one mode What you can't do with it, is merging the signals....it's either one OR the other. But that's what you guys wanted, right?!

 

[Willith]

Errrhhhh ....you tell it to do so, by switching it into two-to-one mode What you can't do with it, is merging the signals....it's either one OR the other. But that's what you guys wanted, right?!

...But in order for that to work, you still have to have two cables coming from the guitar (one from each jack) correct? That's what I don't understand, as I've never seen anyone doing that.

 

[SteveB]

I think what you are saying, is that there is ONE cable used, plugged into the piezo, that is sent through the splitter, where it separates the mag from the piezo- and from the splitter/floorboard you select which option you'd like to use. Is that right?
And if that is the case, how does the splitter knowingly separate the two signals?

A "stereo" or more accurately, TRS (Tip-Ring-Sleeve) cable carries one of the signals on the Tip and the other on the Ring. There's one more wire inside that cable than a "mono" or TS (Tip-Sleeve) cable. The sleeve acts sort of like a ground.

You can tell them apart at a glance because the jack on the end has one ring if it's a TS cable, and two rings if it's a TRS cable. Even on smaller cables.. look at your headphones sometime.. stereo (2-signals) application, so the jack will have two rings, whether you've got 1/4" jack headphones (ex: home stereo component) or 1/8"/3.5mm headphones (ex: Walkman/iPod).

So, then.. the Splitter box takes a TRS connection as its input, isolates the Tip signal and sends it to one TS output jack, and isolates the Ring signal and sends it to another TS output jack.

 

[e.mate]

...But in order for that to work, you still have to have two cables coming from the guitar (one from each jack) correct? That's what I don't understand, as I've never seen anyone doing that.

Sure...that's because - as Steve is telling per above - pros tend to use those TRS (or for me simply stereo ) cables which you cannot tell from the ordinary guitar cable, unless you see the jack. But trust me, there are thousands of axe-brothers out there using a two-cable setup...or a two-wireless-transmitters setup, which is cooler

Pro-level TRS cords are extremely expensive (at least the ones I know), many brothers use custom made ones up to their own length specs.