"I Can't Play X Music With X Bass" - A Rant

[bovinehost]

I keep my personal rants to a minimum here, but the idea that any given decent bass is either (a) suited for a particular style of music only or (b) unsuitable for any type of music really makes me grind my teeth. Of course, I'm talking about sonically; I admit that a BC Rich Warlock might not be the best stylistic choice for your church gig. (Of course, the Supreme Creator of the Universe might actually get a kick out of the idea that a musical instrument could be satanic, whatever that means.)

This morning, I read this (I'm changing it a bit to make it non-attributable): "Music Man makes a fine bass but dialing down the aggressive character is not possible." Same guy says: "I played in a jazz band and you can't make that bass work with that music."

Same topic, different guy: "The SR5 is very smooth, with brilliant highs, and really solid low end and some solid mids."

Now I don't know about you guys, but I think the second guy makes a decent case for Music Man being a very capable instrument in a jazz setting.

And the variables, lo, they are many. I think about this when I'm reading where people set their knobs. "I set my treble at -2, my mids at +4 and my bass at 75 percent." Fine, now are we all using the same strings? Do we all have our right hands in the same position? Is your amp tubes or SS or a hybrid or a digital switching or....? Your cabinet(s)? And then there's room acoustics and whatever other instruments we're competing with for sonic space. Oh, and the drunk girl at the table to the left, she's flashing me.

I don't know, maybe it's either just a good way to start to find a sound and it certainly helps when someone says, "I can't get a decent tone. I have everything turned up to 10 on the bass and..." Yeah, okay, I get that.

A friend of mine used to say, "If you can't do it with a P bass, maybe you shouldn't be doing it."

I've co-opted that to embrace Stingrays, Sterlings, Bongos, SUBS, etc. Hell, maybe we could even let Gibson in! (Gibson doesn't make basses, I know, I know.)

I mean, is it a good bass? If it is, don't tell me you can't play jazz or emo or funk or rock or singer-songwriter stuff with it. I'm lazy and could be a much better bassist than I am, but if "I" can play that music with any given decent bass, trust me, so can other people (especially if they work hard and study and go to church and help old ladies cross the street).

(For the record, no, I don't really know what 'emo' music is.)

It's the player. First and foremost, it is the player. I think we all pretty much know this is true.

But then it's the system. The sonic chain. Bass, strings, electronics, stompboxes (basses are not supposed to use these, but I realize some of you are a bit squirrelly), amplification, speakers, the room itself.

I know two really fabulous bassists, both named Chuck. One is famous, the other is not. They are both astonishing players. The famous one, Chuck Rainey, sits down with my basses occasionally, playing through my amps and speakers, and - much to my chagrin - he sounds just like Chuck Rainey. Not so much like me at all. Dammit.

And the other, Chuck Moses, does exactly the same thing. And I've heard Chuck gig with Fenders, Laklands, EBMMs, Modulus....fretted and fretless...and he sounds like Chuck Moses on each of those instruments. He sounds like himself when he plays my stuff, too.

A Stingray is a bass. A good bass. As are all the other EBMM models. Anyone jumpy enough to try to tell me that they aren't "suited" to a particular genre is, from now on, going to have to put up with me asking, "Are you sure it's the instrument?"

Because I suspect a fault somewhere else in the chain.

There, I'm done and now I'll calm back down and be normal again.

Jack

 

[Jimmyb]

I can't play funk with my Bongo.

Mind you, I can't play (insert genre of choice here) with my Bongo either.

It's obviously the fault of the Bongo.

 

[Big Poppa]

Jack its the whole knee jerk pablum rant "one trick pony" I discussed this in length at the
Bass player live on my roundtable and Tony Levin was astonished..."Are you sure they are talking about a stingray?" Yes Tony.

He said" Do they know how to use the EQ?" No Tony many have never played one they are spouting bedroom keyboard warrior expertise......

He says maybe they should listen to some of the records I play on.......

If you dime everything it will have the unique sound if you cut it is capable of many many tones....Its been around over 30 years now....most one trick ponys are long gone....

It is always the unititiated that are empowered with a foum to provide unsubstantiated expertise

 

[Basspro]

I can't play funk with my Bongo.

It's obviously the fault of the Bongo.

You sure about that?

 

[bovinehost]

I discussed this in length at the Bass player live on my roundtable and Tony Levin was astonished..."Are you sure they are talking about a stingray?" Yes Tony.

Ah, how I wish I'd been there. (I got your message from my friend Kennan, by the way.)

He said" Do they know how to use the EQ?" No Tony many have never played one they are spouting bedroom keyboard warrior expertise......He says maybe they should listen to some of the records I play on.......

Maybe they should. And not just the Peter Gabriel records, although god knows Tony gets plenty of different tones on those....but he gets around pretty good, plenty of different styles. I loved his work with Paula Cole, Jules Shear and Willie Porter. And I'm betting he didn't have to go "find" a bass that worked for each stylistic change!

 

[Basspro]

I loved his work with Paula Cole, Jules Shear and Willie Porter. And I'm betting he didn't have to go "find" a bass that worked for each stylistic change!

+1 it's all about EQing and setting up for different room variables.

 

[boombox]

Right on Jack! I have played 7 different basses with the same band, same set list and they all worked. Granted there were some that I liked way more than others but they all got the job done and never did anyone say that I didn’t sound like myself. I heard “that bass looks cool” or “man I could hear you really well tonight” …. The fact is that a good bass player should be able to get the job done with a good bass no matter what the job is. For me, my single pickup music man basses put me in my comfort zone. I know that bass and it knows my hand, I can work the right hand and get out of it what I need.

“One trick pony?” …more like one pickup stallion!

 

[bovinehost]

Brandt, you hit on another thing that I think about: comfort zone.

I am fortunate to have so many wonderful basses. All the good ones are Music Man basses. (Poor, unloved Fender Jazz bass, all alone amongst the Stingrays and Bongos and such. I know it's frightened.)

I have actually said to people who were bitching about this or that, "Maybe you should play something else." And you'd be hard to find a more ardent user of Music Man, but for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the STRING SPACING IS WHAT IT IS - go buy a damned boutique or something, you know?

I pick up a Stingray 5 or a Bongo (and my SUB!) and think, "I'm comfortable with this." No matter which one I'm playing, at this point I know that if it came down to it and I were left with only that particular one, I'd still be happy. Doesn't matter which one I have with me - I would be good.

 

[TheAntMan]

AMEN!!!

You are 100% spot on Jack. I was telling my wife the same thing last night after reading a post about not liking to use the EQ. The facts you point out about the ambiance of the locale, amp, strings, hand positions, and technique all factor in the tones you get. I never understood about asking what setting someone uses since you are not using their gear, in that location, with those strings, and playing like 'that'.

The EQ is there to help the bass be versatile and I can tell you that my Stingray blows away my JB for tonal options. That is why I have not touched that JB since I got my EBMMs. The Bongos and 25th provide huge amounts of tonal range.

You are dead on in stating that it is the player! Give any bass to a real player and they will make it theirs. EBMM gives us instruments that are as flexible as you can get.

Glad you put this out there.

--Ant

 

[Manfloozy]

I really think that's the key. If YOU feel comfortable with it... then roll on... if you don't it isn't right. People can make amazing music with "junk"... and then there is me who makes "junk" with amazing instruments. But I'll tell you, EQ + Position Switch + Amp + Cab + Technique and Finger Position.... its out there... you just gotta go get it. Now if someone is hellbent on not getting their desired tone... it ain't gonna happen... even if the bass CAN do it.

To me, the EBMM's I've played just do it... they just feel "RIGHT" in my hands.... and in all honesty I don't play the music that some stereotype with EBMM basses as much... I've posted in other forums and generally get back the canned answer of "go buy a P Bass." I'm sure they're great... but my Ray... and DEFINATELY my 25th can do anything it can, if not more to my liking.

Just my $.01.

 

[iamcatwarrior]

+1.

It's amazing what people can do if they turn their EQ knobs, move their hand to a different position, adjust their technique, etc. Any bass can be good for playing any style of music; it's just left as an exercise for the player to find what works best for different styles.

Maybe it just comes down to patience in getting to the right settings in any playing environment for people who are complaining that they can't play X style of music with X bass. Perhaps they gravitate towards X brand of bass (Music Man or otherwise) because of comfort, aesthetics, etc., but that shouldn't stop them from becoming as adaptable as possible.

 

[R Upsomegrub]

I've said it before, but here goes: I've played an SR5 almost exclusively since January 1993. In that time, I've played it in church, various bars and clubs, weddings, outdoor festivals, etc, and stylistically everything from blues to bluegrass to jazz standards from a fake book to country...you get the picture. No one has ever griped about my tone. Occasionally, I get the "you-don't-play-a-F****r?" look, but it usually doesn't last. And I realize that I'm preaching to the choir here.

To whoever says you can't play jazz on a MusicMan, that you can't tame the aggressiveness out of it, I would like to offer this up:

Jason Fickel on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads

Click on the track "One Thousand and One". Played on my (late) '92 SR5 (alder/rosewood/ceramic) with rounds (admittedly well broken-in rounds) through an Alembic F1-X pre. According to the recording engineer, he did nothing to my track in the way of EQ.

(Disclaimer: I make no claims to be great jazzer).

 

[five7]

My stingrays will play any type of music and then some!

 

[MK Bass Weed]

Ug...the world of 'IMHO' becomes real for alot of people...because anyone can be an 'expert' these days. Like BP said "many have never played one they are spouting bedroom keyboard warrior expertise......"

There are bizzilions out there. I love the "Hey I need an opinion on a bass" questions on the boards all over Internet Bass Town. Usually, the dweebs come typing with "I don't own one but I know it sucks". Rawk on Dood.

I miss the politically incorrect days of just saying to someone: 'No, you're just an idiot'.
And then just leave it at that.

That's a no-no now, you get more flames for taking someone to the task of actually letting them try to win an intellectual argument.

Oh well...We know better.

M

 

[phat5]

An SR4 would be IDEAL for jazz! I started helping out wih our local high shool music dept. last year. I've seen Many a jazz fest where The bass was critiqued (spg?) for being eq'd improperly; too boomy. When my sophmore learns to play bass this year (he's a euph / bone player), he'll be ready for Jazz Band #2 with a 3 band SR4, or active Sub......which ever one I can afford next year.

 

[bbernard]

Forget about EQ. There is so much tone living in your fingers. Hard attack near the bridge. Side of your fingers near the neck. A huge range lives between those two extremes.

As long as the bass stays in tune and the action is manageable a decent player should be able to play any gig with any bass. I think opinions to the contrary are coming from folks who have never gigged to any extent.

 

[RobertB]

You're right Jack, it's a totally bogus attitude. I think the people who say that are people who have already made up their minds about it before they ever try it (if they even do).

I agree with you phat5. I'm not what you'd call an accomplished jazz player, but I think walking lines and 7th chords, etc, sound great on a Ray, and fantastic on a Bongo. Sterling and 25th too, I'm sure, just haven't confirmed with my own fingers/ears.

Bottom line, as Nick Hexum said ... "f! the naysayers 'cause they don't mean a thing, this is what style we bring".

 

[Aussie Mark]

I have played 7 different basses with the same band, same set list and they all worked. Granted there were some that I liked way more than others but they all got the job done and never did anyone say that I didn’t sound like myself. I heard “that bass looks cool” or “man I could hear you really well tonight” …. The fact is that a good bass player should be able to get the job done with a good bass no matter what the job is.

+100

I've been doing the same thing for years. If it's got frets and has 4 flatwound strings, any bass will work for me on a generic cover band gig. Through my rig it will sound like .... me. Other factors such as setup, neck width/profile, pickups/electronics, ergonomics, body shape/style and colour are important as well (some of these factors are more important for some gigs than others), but bottom line is I can get the job done with any bass. My first choice preference is EBMM because they tick most of the boxes. The only gigs I don't take an EBMM bass are where a specific look is required or expected - eg. some tribute shows.

 

[OldManMusic]

I was recently asked to sit in during a friends set. I used his beginner's bass and rig. I sounded like me and my friend kept asking how I got that tone out of his rig. When friends play my MM basses and rig, they sound like them, not me. Most play better than me and I sit in wonder at the flair they bring out of my MMs. Jack - you really nailed this one. It's not the bass...

Kevin

 

[TheAntMan]

Proof....

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-basses/40714-stingray-fretless-demo.html

Using the EQ and moving his hands give him a wide range of tones. Awesome playing. It is all part of the arsenal for the player to create. Use it all to speak as completely as possible musically.

--Ant