I have something to get off my chest ..

[Spudmurphy]

... in all the years I have been playing guitar I have never learnt all the notes on the fretboard

I play via box patterns and just a general feel.

I learnt how to read music to play the trombone and recorder but shied away from learning how to read music for guitar - I just wanted to get out there "on the boards" and play which I did for quite a number of years.

I know we have some VERY talented people on this forum and some guitar teachers as well.

So my question is
"How can I learn the fretboard" (in an interesting kinda way?).

and don't say buy a MR Horsepower !!!

 

[Smellybum]

+1 Spud,
All i ever wanted to learn was pentatonic shapes - Paul Gilbert Intense rock 2 showed me that if I could get enough speed up it wouldn't sound like scales!

And I thought I was doing well, then you see someone like Tristan (keeping the obvious guitar heros out the equation for the time being)
and he seems to have knowledge beyond mine (modes etc...)

I know the note names but not how to use 'em !

If you get help - please pass some my way....

 

[robelinda2]

maybe just do one string at a time? knowing the notes on the guitar and knowing the notes on paper are of course very different. but you know, in the end its all about the music, you play what you want and sound how you want. knowing the notes may not make any bloody difference to your playing at all! no harm in knowing though.

 

[Spudmurphy]

^
Rob how do you go about teaching your students?

 

[andynpeters]

A string at a time?

Play scales and say the note names as you play them?

Try finding all the Fs on the fretboard. then all the C#s etc etc?

But as others have said, if it's not holding you back, don't worry too much,

I never subscribed to the theory that since Steve Lukather is an infinitely better guitarist than I am I'm not allowed to play anything, so don't get depressed .comparing yourself to others Spud, Me, I like BB King and I've never seen him mention modes. I like playing but I'm rubbish at absorbing theory and studying.

 

[robelinda2]

^
Rob how do you go about teaching your students?

pretty massive question Spud i'm afraid! I have many different approaches, depending on age, playing level, physical ability, aspirations of the student etc. You just cant have a one size fits all approach, i'd be broke and Ball-less. I only get beginning kids to learn the notes and do the somewhat boring stuff, you cant do a whole lot else with an 7 yr old.

With most students i just try to get them having fun as soon as possible, get em hooked on playing, and slowly get them into the nuts and bolts of playing, but always stressing that i'd rather watch/listen to someone having the time of their life playing guitar but not technically great, rather than someone who has no musicality and is boring as hell but has 'technique'. in other words, the old feel vs speed debate. i remember what is was like when i first started playing, my first teacher said i wasnt going to learn any songs for 2 years, just finger exercises. i was gutted. i learnt 'wild thing' and 'you really got me' on my own, and was overjoyed, had the most fun ever. just like it should be, a whole load of fun. a few of my students are even on this forum!

i really love teaching, its great to interact with other people who enjoy similar music, and get paid for it! being able to help people play what they want and achieve it is very satisfying.

 

[Smellybum]

that since Steve Lukather is an infinitely better guitarist than I am I'm not allowed to play anything, .

I only just managed that pinky note thing for the Rosanna solo - taken me about 10 years to perfect!

 

[Spudmurphy]

Rob
Yup I know exactly where you are coming from because my job is entails teaching - but nothing as interesting as music. If you lose that interest then you are fighting a losing battle.
I'm going through a phase of what if /and /but and I have a couple of weeks away working sometimes staring at the same boring hotel wall. So I was gonna set my self a task to start learning the fretboard. I may take a crappy ol guitar with me to do that ( a 3/4 Chinese made acoustic).
I do love playing with feel - I am not a shredder/speed merchant but that may be my next task !!!
Keep the ideas coming in guys.

 

[KungFu Grip]

maybe just do one string at a time? knowing the notes on the guitar and knowing the notes on paper are of course very different. but you know, in the end its all about the music, you play what you want and sound how you want. knowing the notes may not make any bloody difference to your playing at all! no harm in knowing though.

I picked up the "one string at a time" technique from Mick Goodrick's book, "The Advancing Guitarist". Within a month, that little technique alone helped my playing and fretboard knowledge more than years of other practice techniques. It breaks you out of the "boxes" and give you a completely different perspective on the instrument.

 

[Spudmurphy]

^
Thanks KFG, sounds a good suggestion. Amazon has it in stock too!

 

[adouglas]

Here's a little something that helped me....

Presumably you know how to play a scale or two. Lots of places to find that stuff on the net.

Now, using your ears and your knowledge instead of a diagram, figure out a way to play that scale using a different pattern (i.e., if the scale chart says to play a G on the fifth fret of the D string, try playing the G on the tenth fret of the A string instead). This will teach you where to find the same notes on other strings.

You'll find that you can play the exact same scale in several different ways, with different patterns.

It's also a nice mental exercise to try extending a scale as far as you can. Play, say, a G major scale starting as low as you can, but don't stop when you get to the octave. Keep going, playing the scale ever higher until you run out of neck.

Obviously, if you keep your hand down low (towards the nut) on the neck as you play the scales, you wind up just playing a series of notes that run up the high E string...so, use what you learned above to shift your hand progressively higher up the neck instead.

Learning comes from familiarity, and familiarity comes from use. You have to play all over the fretboard to learn what notes lie where.

 

[andynpeters]

I'm going through a phase of what if /and /but and I have a couple of weeks away working sometimes staring at the same boring hotel wall. So I was gonna set my self a task to start learning the fretboard. I may take a crappy ol guitar with me to do that ( a 3/4 Chinese made acoustic).

May I suggest you take a nice guitar that you'll enjoy playing instead? Much more motivational, even if all you want to do is learn the fretboard.

 

[JSX]

I found that learning the modes helped me know the fretboard and notes a lot better.

 

[puppyonacid]

pretty massive question Spud i'm afraid! I have many different approaches, depending on age, playing level, physical ability, aspirations of the student etc. You just cant have a one size fits all approach, i'd be broke and Ball-less. I only get beginning kids to learn the notes and do the somewhat boring stuff, you cant do a whole lot else with an 7 yr old.

With most students i just try to get them having fun as soon as possible, get em hooked on playing, and slowly get them into the nuts and bolts of playing, but always stressing that i'd rather watch/listen to someone having the time of their life playing guitar but not technically great, rather than someone who has no musicality and is boring as hell but has 'technique'. in other words, the old feel vs speed debate. i remember what is was like when i first started playing, my first teacher said i wasnt going to learn any songs for 2 years, just finger exercises. i was gutted. i learnt 'wild thing' and 'you really got me' on my own, and was overjoyed, had the most fun ever. just like it should be, a whole load of fun. a few of my students are even on this forum!

i really love teaching, its great to interact with other people who enjoy similar music, and get paid for it! being able to help people play what they want and achieve it is very satisfying.

Totally agree Rob. That's exactley what I do with my students. From my own experiance tho, using the fretboard is one way to learn the notes. Alot of guitar players use TAB which is fine. TAB is often considered cheating by purists but it does eliminate the positon dilema which doesn't occur on most none stringed instruments. Also, I have been told that loot players centuries ago would use a form of TAB way before standard music notation was properly realised.

I found that when I was learning, as I was using an old nylon strung guitar with no fret markers I'd remember notes from knots in the wood on my fretboard. There was a huge knot under the G at the 10th fret on my A string. Then, because the guitar fretboard worksin a relative manner, I found that I could position notes quickly without having to put too much thought into it. For example, because I knew where that G was I instantly knew where F#/Gb was. I also knew the there was a C on the string above and that D was 2 frets higher than that so it had like a knock effect. I didn't neccisarily have to sit down and learn every individual note. I often give my students that advice. So say learning where all the natural notes are on a string, or learning where say all the E's and B's are and you may find you can quickly locate other notes really quickly without out too much process of thought. But like I said, If you don't use it before it becomes secong nature you may forget.

 

[Spudmurphy]

May I suggest you take a nice guitar that you'll enjoy playing instead? Much more motivational, even if all you want to do is learn the fretboard.

Yeah I know - but easily "knickable" too! Unless it's nailed down here in the UK it's gone !!
Besides when I get back home it will make playing my AL all the more better.

 

[Tim O'Sullivan]

I only know the notes along the E strings, and I have no desire to learn the others! What I know about music theory I could write on my thumbnail, but I am happy with the way I play on the whole. I have never not got a gig because I didnt know any theory, mind you I don't do any sessions that require it!

 

[kbaim]

Another approach is to learn the 1/4/5 chords for all keys and learn them all in several different voicings. Then spend time looking at the different notes that make up the chords and where they land underneath your fingers depending on voicing

I'd be a much better player if I did this.

But I still think that just composing songs, whatever chords or soloing you use, is the best way to relate to your instrument and make playing more personal and satisfying. my 2 cents

 

[pjc812]

Knowing the notes on your frettboard is really very simple. It's simply a matter of knowing your ABC's, and counting.

The musical alphabet goes from A-G. Ascending, every note has a sharp except for E and B. Descending, every note has a flat except for C and F. At least, for the time being anyway.

Putting that all together will give you a chromatic scale (half steps).
I.E. A - A# - B - C - C#...until you get to G# - A, and start all over again.

Every frett on your guitar is a half step. So, on your A string, you have A as open, A# as 1st frett, B as second, so on and so forth.

Depending on what string you start on tells you where in the chromatic scale you begin counting. Always remember that everything starts over again after G#. If you already know a musical instrument, you already know that.

As far as reading guitar music, it's written an octave higher than concert pitch in the treble clef. Treble cleff notes are I believe a third lower than bass clef (in bass clef your bottom line will be a G, in Treble clef it's an E).

Hope this helps

 

[Astrofreq]

I found that learning the modes helped me know the fretboard and notes a lot better.

I was about the say the same thing, mainly because knowing modes forces you to think in keys and the progressing chords in that key. THEN, when you play the pentatonics we all know and love, you'll have a better understanding of how to venture outside of that box shape.

All easier said than done, but fun in the process.

First off, if you don't know the 5 pentatonic patterns cold, that is a good place to start. Then take chords you already know and use and associate which patterns fit with with any particular chord. Obviously, there are a bunch of scale options for any chord, but pentatonics are the easiest way to hack at it.

 

[Astrofreq]

The musical alphabet goes from A-G. Ascending, every note has a sharp except for E and B. Descending, every note has a flat except for C and F. At least, for the time being anyway.

Apparently there's an H as well.

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/24159-baritone-tuning.html#post359405